Does anyone know of a contractor being sued by the agency.....

[BrilloPad]

Stupid question - but if there is no point in having a notice period as the client is under no obligation to provide a contractor with work then it seems a great pity that a contractor should work out their notice?

[SueEllen]

Stupid question - but if there is no point in having a notice period as the client is under no obligation to provide a contractor with work then it seems a great pity that a contractor should work out their notice?

Not a stupid question. everything depends on how the contract is written and how the client approaches it.

This is why lawyers get rich.

Edited to say: And also how they see you. Some clients' see us as suppliers so we get treated fairly, there as others see us as 'bums on seats' who they can do what they like to.

[northernladuk]

What does it say in the contract?

If the termination clauses on both sides are roughly equal i.e. they can withhold £x amount if you terminate early but they have to pay you for y days if they give you notice then the penalty clauses in contract could be considered to be fair.

A contract will never say that. They give the option to give notice but never mention payment for that notice. It depends if work is available or not. After recent arguments about notice if you expect in lieu payments then you should specifically add it otherwise you are in a grey area as SE and I have discussed... but you want to avoid in lieu arrangements, something SE and I do not agree on lol...

Top 5 Common Contract Review Slip Ups! - Contractor Weekly

2. Payments in lieu of service
“Contractors should not receive payment for any time during which services are not supplied. Payment for any time where services are not provided would be seen by HMRC as indicative of employment.”

but anyway, not going off topic......

If however the termination clause is one-sided i.e. they can withhold £x but you get sweet FA if they give you notice then I would take them to court if they withhold the money. £450 is easy to chase in the small claims court and helps your IR35 position.

Not sure what you mean with this example. One major fact we are missing is whether the is NO termination clause or if the contractor CANNOT give notice during the period. The details in all this are absolutely key. The example is far too generic and assuming far to much to be useful.

Unless our esteemed OP comes back with some more details, which doesn't seem to happen, then we are arguing over nothing as we don't know the details on which to base a decision.

Taking the above in to the account then the only possible conclusion we can come to is that I am right.

I thank you.

[northernladuk]

Stupid question - but if there is no point in having a notice period as the client is under no obligation to provide a contractor with work then it seems a great pity that a contractor should work out their notice?

They shouldn't work out their notice unless there is work to do. Working out your notice when you have already completed the task is clear D&C and paying for work not done causes problems with MoO.

Although our termination clauses pass the QDOS/B&C tests for IR35 it appears from these discussions the standard one we tend to use is woefully lacking in detail. The whole point of the contract is to have clear agreement yet we obviously have notices that are not clear. I am starting to think a proper, unambiguous clause would include immediate termination should work cease and in lieu payments be agreed before hand. Every B2C contract you get the termination clauses go on for pages so why is ours one paragraph and we can't even agree what it means.

[SueEllen]

They shouldn't work out their notice unless there is work to do. Working out your notice when you have already completed the task is clear D&C and paying for work not done causes problems with MoO.

So being paid notice because the client has to terminate the project because of unforeseen issues on their side out of both companies control is MoO? There as when the client gets rid of a larger company and has to pay notice for doing the same it isn't?

[Sausage Surprise]

A contract will never say that. They give the option to give notice but never mention payment for that notice. It depends if work is available or not. After recent arguments about notice if you expect in lieu payments then you should specifically add it otherwise you are in a grey area as SE and I have discussed... but you want to avoid in lieu arrangements, something SE and I do not agree on lol...

Top 5 Common Contract Review Slip Ups! - Contractor Weekly



but anyway, not going off topic......



Not sure what you mean with this example. One major fact we are missing is whether the is NO termination clause or if the contractor CANNOT give notice during the period. The details in all this are absolutely key. The example is far too generic and assuming far to much to be useful.

Unless our esteemed OP comes back with some more details, which doesn't seem to happen, then we are arguing over nothing as we don't know the details on which to base a decision.

Taking the above in to the account then the only possible conclusion we can come to is that I am right.

I thank you.

4 weeks notice on either side
Nothing in the contract about withholding funds but I guess they will.
Work still available but can by-pass the notice period with mutual consent between contractor and client.

[northernladuk]

4 weeks notice on either side
Nothing in the contract about withholding funds but I guess they will.
Work still available but can by-pass the notice period with mutual consent between contractor and client.

But why are they insisting on holding back money? He hasn't honoured the notice? If he gave 4 weeks notice then it would be outrageous of the agency to withhold his money. If this is the case and your mate has done everything above board I would go in with all guns blazing pointing out the interest rates on late commercial debts in the first letter you send them. If they know you mean business they should fold quickly...

Interest Calculator - Calculate Late Payment Interest - Pay on Time

[northernladuk]

So being paid notice because the client has to terminate the project because of unforeseen issues on their side out of both companies control is MoO? There as when the client gets rid of a larger company and has to pay notice for doing the same it isn't?

Oddly enough I thought MoO was about work after the contract but a couple of sites I read claim that being paid for no work indicates some level of obligation between the client and the contractor so the answer to your question appears to be yes.

Larger companies are a different kettle of fish as they don't IR35 to worry about and I bet their T&C's are much clearer and detailed than ours. They also have much better controls about SoW, time spent and forecasting than a one man band that just sits their working along side the permies.

[TheFaQQer]

4 weeks notice on either side
Nothing in the contract about withholding funds but I guess they will.
Work still available but can by-pass the notice period with mutual consent between contractor and client.

Give 4 weeks notice. Tell them that you are unavailable for some (or all) of that time.

You meet the contractual obligations, they have to pay.

[donjuan75]

6 weeks or 1

This has been an interesting read. Given my situation explained in the other forum, I've been reading my contract again. 6 weeks notice either way, except if the work is no longer available, in which case they can give me 1 week. So, if the BobCo tells me they won't renew my contract, that suggests there's no work for me beyond then, of course.

However, there's 6 weeks to go to that point (coincidentally), but I'm being approached about potential roles now...of course starting asap, as is always the case. So, if I quit in 2 weeks instead of 6, what are the implications? I suppose it depends on agreement from BobCo and how a judge would see it, so not asking you to give definitive answers, just experiences I suppose.