Working for Bob

[kevpuk]

Laws only reflect the public perception of what is right. If we can persuade Joe Public that HMG are not only sending existing jobs overseas but also stopping UK nationals having any chance of learning enough to take those jobs, the abuse of ICTs stops. That needs the national press. The national press, post Leveson, won't move until they have a demonstrable case for HMG to answer. We all know it's happpening but nobody has yet handed over a piece of paper with the proof. Do that, and Cable's whole house of cards will fall down.

All the ducks are lined up ready to go: all we need is proof.

Go ducks, Go!

[AnthonyQuinn]

Laws only reflect the public perception of what is right. If we can persuade Joe Public that HMG are not only sending existing jobs overseas but also stopping UK nationals having any chance of learning enough to take those jobs, the abuse of ICTs stops. That needs the national press. The national press, post Leveson, won't move until they have a demonstrable case for HMG to answer. We all know it's happpening but nobody has yet handed over a piece of paper with the proof. Do that, and Cable's whole house of cards will fall down.

All the ducks are lined up ready to go: all we need is proof.

Get your facts right. You are a contractor providing a service. The company is choosing an overseas vendor rather than a UK vendor (you). They are not cutting any 'jobs'.

Do you buy Chinese electronic goods? In which case you choose a foreign vendor over a UK one, you aren't firing anyone.

[malvolio]

Get your facts right. You are a contractor providing a service. The company is choosing an overseas vendor rather than a UK vendor (you). They are not cutting any 'jobs'.

Do you buy Chinese electronic goods? In which case you choose a foreign vendor over a UK one, you aren't firing anyone.

Get your facts right. Cable's department is actively subsidising a limited number of non-EU companies to deliver services at a cost that we cannot match, by offering tax breaks and unlimited access to offshore based workers with "imaginative" salary and expense structures that allow them to undercut EU-based opposition. He is also closing the door to any UK students wanting to move into IT and engineering by ensuring all entry level work is handed off to non-EU workers.

Our service economy was the best in the world. It will all be gone in the next few years.

[CoolCat]

Re "They are not cutting any 'jobs'." dont be silly.

The companies which have used the biggest headcounts subcontracted from the Indian outsourcers, and in some cases even been shareholders in the indian outsourcers, have not only significantly reduced the numbers of contract staff they have used they have also reduced their PAYE headcount significantly too.

For easy clearcut examples look at BT or Lloyds, thousands of Indian nationals in the country on ICT visas (or have been here so long they have been granted indefinite leave to remain) for the Indian outsourcers working for them. BT UK payroll has been subjected to constant waves of redundancy and termination. Same for other big users of Indian labour.

[donjuan75]

job losses

Re "They are not cutting any 'jobs'." dont be silly.

The companies which have used the biggest headcounts subcontracted from the Indian outsourcers, and in some cases even been shareholders in the indian outsourcers, have not only significantly reduced the numbers of contract staff they have used they have also reduced their PAYE headcount significantly too.

For easy clearcut examples look at BT or Lloyds, thousands of Indian nationals in the country on ICT visas (or have been here so long they have been granted indefinite leave to remain) for the Indian outsourcers working for them. BT UK payroll has been subjected to constant waves of redundancy and termination. Same for other big users of Indian labour.

On this very account, dozens of permies were made redundant, directly replaced by the guys brought in from offshore (and already onshore). It's economics, plain and simple. Yes, it's easy to get annoyed or emotional about it, but this is the new world order. Sad, but true.

[CoolCat]

On this very account, dozens of permies were made redundant, directly replaced by the guys brought in from offshore (and already onshore). It's economics, plain and simple. Yes, it's easy to get annoyed or emotional about it, but this is the new world order. Sad, but true.

dozens you can see but thousands overall

[tomtomagain]

but this is the new world order. Sad, but true.

Don't worry. It won't last much longer. The IT outsourcing industry is in deep tulipe.

A few years ago whilst sitting with a senior manager she explained to me why they would be outsourcing our entire technical capability of the IT department ( more capability, lower costs, ability to scale up/down at a moments notice, blah blah blah ). I challenged her to tell me a project that had been successfully completed by the outsourcers within the organisation ( and we did literally hundreds of IT projects per year ). She could not name a single one. Not one. But they outsourced it all anyway.

As the years have rolled on more and more process has been introduced to cover up the gaps and holes. Whereas in the "old" days we'd have a couple of in-house techies who talked to the users, developed the system, deployed it, supported it , we have now have teams of hundreds.

Now I am not saying that the old ways ( in-house technologists, light processes ) were best. Everything needs improvements, nothing is perfect. But the FTSE100 IT department I work in and around has outsourced itself into a deep hole. It is now struggling to be relevant to the business it serves.

All consultancies follow a model of "land-and-expand" - Bob-houses especially. But this linear business model has added massive costs, complexity and dramatically slowed down the ability to deliver in a timely manner.

So it will all change. But it's not coming back in-house. Those days are gone. Over the next decade Software/Platform/Infrastructure as a Service is going to gut in-house IT departments AND consultancies.

[BillHicksRIP]

All it will take is one major cockup for a public-facing organisation that can be directly attributed to an off-shored person before there will be a tulip-storm of pulling apart ICTs and outsourcing in the press. Expect another "Buy British" campaign and companies pillioried for sending jobs overseas. With any luck, it will be a government agency that suffers a major issue.

[kevpuk]

All it will take is one major cockup for a public-facing organisation that can be directly attributed to an off-shored person before there will be a tulip-storm of pulling apart ICTs and outsourcing in the press. Expect another "Buy British" campaign and companies pillioried for sending jobs overseas. With any luck, it will be HMRC that suffers a major issue.

FTFY

[alluvial]

All it will take is one major cockup for a public-facing organisation that can be directly attributed to an off-shored person before there will be a tulip-storm of pulling apart ICTs and outsourcing in the press. Expect another "Buy British" campaign and companies pillioried for sending jobs overseas. With any luck, it will be a government agency that suffers a major issue.

That has already happened with the Natwest debacle last year. All gone rather quiet on that one so I don't hold out much hope.