Attitude to being available out of hours

[eek]

Re: Attitude to being available out of hours

+1 I regard it a sales call because if the client is happy I'm likely to stay longer. If it takes time I'll rectify it by leaving early or arriving later the next time I need to.

[psychocandy]

If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

That's why if there's no OOH support clause, you dont or shouldnt volunteer it. It's like doing extra hours free.

You've let the client and others know you're happy to do it (never mind the caveats) hence the client now asking where were you and why didnt you support.

All this stuff is pretty basic. You really should act more professionally.

How is it not acting professionally? Being a bit soft maybe.

A professional does what they can (within reason) and does make excuses without good reason. A non-professional starts work at 9am on the dot and leaves at 5pm on the dot. A professional will help out fellow professionals with a 5 min phone call and not 'work to rule' for the sake of it.

But, of course, I do agree that it can go too far...

[psychocandy]

It depends on the client as well.
There were some projects in my early contracting career I was doing extra hours just to get my hands on new technology.

And if they ask politely, I dont see the harm. As long as its rare.

But if client asks "where were you", thats just rude, and shows disrespect, since you are not obligated to respond out of hours.

As for "give an inch", I honestly believe it's more a reflection of their level of respect for you and your obligation, rather than a desire to screw as much out of you as possible.

You should just charge for your time at a premium rate if its often.
Just to add, charge for minimum hours, eg, min of 3hrs at premium rate.

But thats just it. Off phone call once in a blue moon = free.

They're never, in a million years, going to pay extra for my time. Thats the way they are....

[psychocandy]

Change clients for gods sake. They obviously see you as part and parcel of the company so time to go and give us a break.

Change the tune for gods sake and give us all a break

Perhaps we need a sticky telling members that its not compulsory to read every single post if they really don't want to?

[SimonMac]

Normally I don't mind if a colleague at the client phones me out of hours if there's anything I can do to help. I'm happy if a 5 min call gets someone out of a hole. As long as:-

1. Its not all the time.
2. As long as it is just a quick call and doesn't take ages.
3. They don't expect it.

But, its amazing the attitude sometimes. Current client pays someone to be on call (but not me!). Got up this morning to find a few texts on my phone, some urgent emails at 10pm last night.

Then client had the cheek to ask - where was I last night? This problem needed to be sorted. Are you having a laugh?

Bearing in mind this is also the same client who constantly messes me around with extensions, always tries to penny pinch when they can. Not exactly deserving of freebies if I'm honest....

I've got the feeling I'm maybe too nice and, in future, will consider not even doing anything like this for free. The old saying 'give an inch and they'll take a mile' rings very true.

Probably bad idea that they have my own personal mobile no too. Time to get another sim card for business use I think and then swap it over when I walk out the door at night.

What do rest of you do?

Its a good idea to get a cheap PAYG phone and SIM anyway for pimps etc, when you have a gig throw it away and get another PAYG to give to the client, and use again for job searching after that one ends (I usually am happy to take calls after I have left one place before I start another).

[BolshieBastard]

How is it not acting professionally? Being a bit soft maybe.

A professional does what they can (within reason) and does make excuses without good reason. A non-professional starts work at 9am on the dot and leaves at 5pm on the dot. A professional will help out fellow professionals with a 5 min phone call and not 'work to rule' for the sake of it.

But, of course, I do agree that it can go too far...

You act professionally by performing what you are contracted for. And its not me who's having problem after problem after problem with their client.

[TheFaQQer]

Tell them you're willing to discuss an out of hours or on call rate if that's the requirement.

+1

The answer to "where were you last night?" should be along the lines of "sorry, I didn't realise that you were expecting me to be on call - we'll have to factor that into the contract terms. I'm happy yo be on call, but not for free. And don't be so rude"

I've done some occasional out of ours stuff - mainly due to time differences, though. Last client, someone emailed me at about 1000pm UK time. I was up, and it appeared on my phone, so I read it. Had a quick think, answered the email (said that I couldn't fix it as I didn't have access, but this is what the problem is...), and went to bed. Next day, the PM sent me an email saying that he didn't expect me to be doing that, would tell the team not to do that again, and have half a day off in lieu.

I wouldn't do it regularly without being paid, though, that's for certain.

[TheFaQQer]

Probably bad idea that they have my own personal mobile no too. Time to get another sim card for business use I think and then swap it over when I walk out the door at night.

Get a YAC number - that's what I've had for years. Give that number to pimps and clients, and it redirects to you. Easy to switch it off using the web front-end or via phone, and you can have a different voicemail on there if you want to.

Plus, once they see how much it costs to ring you (75p a minute from a mobile), they'll soon stop calling.

[psychocandy]

+1

The answer to "where were you last night?" should be along the lines of "sorry, I didn't realise that you were expecting me to be on call - we'll have to factor that into the contract terms. I'm happy yo be on call, but not for free. And don't be so rude"

I've done some occasional out of ours stuff - mainly due to time differences, though. Last client, someone emailed me at about 1000pm UK time. I was up, and it appeared on my phone, so I read it. Had a quick think, answered the email (said that I couldn't fix it as I didn't have access, but this is what the problem is...), and went to bed. Next day, the PM sent me an email saying that he didn't expect me to be doing that, would tell the team not to do that again, and have half a day off in lieu.

I wouldn't do it regularly without being paid, though, that's for certain.

Yeh, past experiences have shown that some clients are OK and don't expect it but there are some who really do want something for nothing.

Unfortunately, current client is one of those who wants things for free and if permies/contractors do it they get away with it. They've got an uncanny knack of making it look like you're just being awkward.

Of course, as mentioned before, not helped by fellow contractor here who does it all - weekends for free, evenings for free, works for weeks without contract. Just makes me look bad....

[psychocandy]

Get a YAC number - that's what I've had for years. Give that number to pimps and clients, and it redirects to you. Easy to switch it off using the web front-end or via phone, and you can have a different voicemail on there if you want to.

Plus, once they see how much it costs to ring you (75p a minute from a mobile), they'll soon stop calling.

Not a bad idea. Is this the type of number where you get some of the money they get charged for the call?

Now that would be good. Bit like a phone sex line - keep them on as long as you can and it earns you a few quid..... :-)