Negotiating with agencies

[socialworker]

I have just been offered an assignment 10 minutes walk from home with an agencyI have worked for before. Both assignments I got without interview and I have excellent references so I am good trouble free profitable candidate.

After I agreed to take the new gig the agent told me they do not deal with my umbrella as it is not on their preferred list. I have only done one job with this umbrella so not to continue with them for a second puts me in the position of having potentially to pay back £2000 to HMRC which I cannot afford to do.

1. How hardball would you play it with the agent? I am now considering saying on Monday - accept my brolly co or I cannot do this gig. In fact that is the position as I do not have the stomach for waiting for HMRC to come knocking - they will have to look at my file this year as I need to ask them to correct my tax code.

2. I know the client co. manager personally and could speak to her on Monday and say - can you persuade the agent to sign my brolly's contract? Would that be considered very bad form? How big a deal is it for an agency to deal with another brolly? another agent did it for my last job even though my brolly wasn't on their preferred list. Surely just a question of sign the contract and set them up on their accounts system - about 20 minutes work.

3. the job will also be advertised with other agencies I 'm signed up with - if I turn down the gig with this agent will another agent put me up for the same job? in fact there are 2 job so it might be possible for me to go for the other one.

Any sensible advice gratefully received especially from any agents out there.

[bobspud]

The answer is to leave the umbrella company up and running and run this role though your own limited company. Then close the umbrella agreement at the end of the taxyear.

[socialworker]

The answer is to leave the umbrella company up and running and run this role though your own limited company. Then close the umbrella agreement at the end of the taxyear.

That is an interesting suggestion thanks. But won't it still leave me liable to pay back the tax saved if I don't have more than one gig with the umbrella?

[BolshieBastard]

That is an interesting suggestion thanks. But won't it still leave me liable to pay back the tax saved if I don't have more than one gig with the umbrella?

As I understand it, yes although I could be wrong.

TBH, this is one reason why I always say 'NO!' to brollies. Agents can dictate to you which brollie they work with.

Unless someone can show different (that ending the brollie relationship while Ltd doesnt mean you have to pay back 2 grand expenses), I'd say you can only say to the agent 'its my brollie or I walk' and be prepared to walk.

I suspect though that if you brollie isnt recognised by the agent they'll say 'walk then.'

[VectraMan]

Why do you have to pay £2K to HMRC for leaving an umbrella?

[bobspud]

That is an interesting suggestion thanks. But won't it still leave me liable to pay back the tax saved if I don't have more than one gig with the umbrella?

I don't know why you would have to give money back to them at all. It sound like a scam to keep you in a Ponzi scheme to me. Worst case is you have used all your tax brackets allotments. Either way umbrella companies seem more dangerous to me than spending a few hundred pounds making sure your contract is outside IR35 and running a company where you are legally entitled to 80% of the profits...

[socialworker]

I don't know why you would have to give money back to them at all. It sound like a scam to keep you in a Ponzi scheme to me. Worst case is you have used all your tax brackets allotments. Either way umbrella companies seem more dangerous to me than spending a few hundred pounds making sure your contract is outside IR35 and running a company where you are legally entitled to 80% of the profits...

I think I would have to pay back tax ( if HMRC picked up on it) because the only reason I could claim home to work mileage was because the workplace was considered temporary. If I only do one gig with the umbrella, it turns out it wasnt temporary, it was the only place I worked at for them, so home - work mileage would not be claimable.

Umbrella seemed a reasonable option at the time and still would be if I had another gig where I was doing a fair bit of commuting mileage/accommodation. I wasnt sure how long I would be doing contracting at the time so going Ltd could just cause me all sorts of complications for little benefit. Not to mention I only had a week to think about it and had flu at the time. I think it highly questionable the kind of gigs I do could be considered outside IR35, mainly for reasons of control and no right of substitution. So Ltd only gives very small advantage to me over umbrella i.e flat rate VAT scheme and 5% biz expenses allowance. Plus I would need to do a self assessment tax return. Long term I may still consider it though.

[formant]

Isn't it the intention to complete more than one assignment that matters? You want to stay with this umbrella for future assignments, but your agent is forcing you to change. Now if you have precisely that exchange in writing to show to HMRC if it gets queried, in my understanding that means you'll be 'safe'.

Lisa will probably be able to give us a definite answer here. She's given good advice in this thread already:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/umbre...ml#post1633558

[BolshieBastard]

I don't know why you would have to give money back to them at all. It sound like a scam to keep you in a Ponzi scheme to me. Worst case is you have used all your tax brackets allotments. Either way umbrella companies seem more dangerous to me than spending a few hundred pounds making sure your contract is outside IR35 and running a company where you are legally entitled to 80% of the profits...

One job through brollie and claimed travel expenses, the one job isnt a temporary place of employment so travel expenses not a legitimate expense.

Hope that's clear!

[northernladuk]

Technically the OP is correct about having to pay back his subsidence but you can easily argue, and prove, that he intended to do more than one assignment. He is having to quit the brolly as new gigs won't accept it, not because he was going to do one assignment and then jack it in. The agent not accepting the brolly is the reason to move. I would say the fact he is still contracting is more than enough so if I was in his position I would be quite comfortable switching brollies and not paying the money back. The idea of the rule is to stop people doing one assignment and then going back permie which he clearly isn't.

If the agent won't accept the brolly I would say this one isn't up for negotiation.