Educating your "line manager"

[northernladuk]

The reality has become such that things like Line Managers, Team Leaders etc. are delegated this phantom authority over you by someone else and don't get it when you attempt to educate them otherwise (or ignore them).

What has happened to Contractors being nothing more than a few lines of deliverables in a project plan? Where has all this IR35 endangering tulip appeared from?

Are things this bad over in the real side of contracting i.e. techies and uber geeks or is it just us pen pushers?

Worrying times...

Very and people wonder why I get pissed of with people coming on here with a few years 'contracting' under their belts asking stupid questions proving they are not contractors. We all need a learning curve but some people just don't help the cause. Sometimes I think contractors are a contractors worst enemy.. if that makes sense. It will get worse as it gets watered down more and more until contracting becomes the defacto standard of getting project type workers in to prop up the offshore offering

[Butcheroo]

Educating your "line manager"

Very and people wonder why I get pissed of with people coming on here with a few years 'contracting' under their belts asking stupid questions proving they are not contractors. We all need a learning curve but some people just don't help the cause. Sometimes I think contractors are a contractors worst enemy.. if that makes sense. It will get worse as it gets watered down more and more until contracting becomes the defacto standard of getting project type workers in to prop up the offshore offering

You've mentioned that there are some contractors at your client who would get caught. What makes what they do so different from you working practice wise?

How can you have the same client but be outside when they are in. Do you not have same agency Ts&Cs

[malvolio]

You've mentioned that there are some contractors at your client who would get caught. What makes what they do so different from you working practice wise?

How can you have the same client but be outside when they are in. Do you not have same agency Ts&Cs

QED. You really don't understand the basics, do you.

Yes, most people have roughly similar Ts&Cs from the agency. Sadly there are a lot of contractors who still think like permies and don't see any point or problems in not adhering to those Ts&Cs; all they see is the pouind signs and sit there doing whatever they're told to do so that they are then indistinguishable from the permies and therefore have no IR35 defence in place. Maintaining the gap between YourCo adn the client is the key. You don't have to be confrontational about it, just clear and consistent.

And NLUK's point is valid - the 80% or so of Ltd Co contractors who don't think or behave like independent contractors are buggering it up for everyone.

[kingcook]

You've mentioned that there are some contractors at your client who would get caught. What makes what they do so different from you working practice wise?

How can you have the same client but be outside when they are in. Do you not have same agency Ts&Cs

Sorry to barge in! I've worked with contractors where I feel that they are caught by IR35 yet i'm not myself.

It's down to their working practices. They are "yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir", all too willing to do whatever the client asks them to do. If you sat them next to an employee you couldn't tell the difference. They have heard of IR35 but haven't got a clue what it really means (they seem to think if you've been working for same client less than 2 years, you're safe - regardless of working practices!)

I stick to what is defined in the contract/schedule, not be controlled by the client, act like a business, and so on. It's a different mindset.

[Butcheroo]

Educating your "line manager"

QED. You really don't understand the basics, do you.

Yes, most people have roughly similar Ts&Cs from the agency. Sadly there are a lot of contractors who still think like permies and don't see any point or problems in not adhering to those Ts&Cs; all they see is the pouind signs and sit there doing whatever they're told to do so that they are then indistinguishable from the permies and therefore have no IR35 defence in place. Maintaining the gap between YourCo adn the client is the key. You don't have to be confrontational about it, just clear and consistent.

And NLUK's point is valid - the 80% or so of Ltd Co contractors who don't think or behave like independent contractors are buggering it up for everyone.

I do honestly see your point

From my experience people like you are rare. Most of us just ensure the terms are good for ir35 and then do the tasks needed in the contract

I would say 95% of it contractors behave the same

I guess I am going to have to be more insistent on clarity if working practice

Do you always ask for the "must work at least x amount of hours per day it week " to be removed. Would agencies actually do that.

[Butcheroo]

Educating your "line manager"

I do honestly see your point

From my experience people like you are rare. Most of us just ensure the terms are good for ir35 and then do the tasks needed in the contract

I would say 95% of it contractors behave the same

I guess I am going to have to be more insistent on clarity if working practice

Do you always ask for the "must work at least x amount of hours per day it week " to be removed. Would agencies actually do that.

Right that's it then. I always try to be too nice and fit in. Always thought that would win me more work. I rarely cause any fuss when bosses try a little control.

I need to make a decision. Sharpen up from now on a hope my past doesn't get investigated or go perm to stop these worries

How do hmrc expect you to pay £100k anyway. Do they agree terms or is it a one off payment or bankruptcy.

[kingcook]

Right that's it then. I always try to be too nice and fit in. Always thought that would win me more work. I rarely cause any fuss when bosses try a little control.

I need to make a decision. Sharpen up from now on a hope my past doesn't get investigated or go perm to stop these worries

How do hmrc expect you to pay £100k anyway. Do they agree terms or is it a one off payment or bankruptcy.

There's nothing wrong with being nice, but as you say being too nice and trying to fit in too much can land you in a world of pain.

Just remember what you're there to do, the reason why they hired you/your ltdco. Hang around here and you will learn

It all starts at interview stage for me. Treat it as a time to discuss the actual work that needs doing, rather than just going along and answering their questions about previous jobs/clients/experiences.

[Butcheroo]

Educating your "line manager"

There's nothing wrong with being nice, but as you say being too nice and trying to fit in too much can land you in a world of pain.

Just remember what you're there to do, the reason why they hired you/your ltdco. Hang around here and you will learn

It all starts at interview stage for me. Treat it as a time to discuss the actual work that needs doing, rather than just going along and answering their questions about previous jobs/clients/experiences.

You are right. I have just always been worried that if I cause too much stick I would not get the job. Same with agencies who won't change terms.

New times for me. Need to change.

[SueEllen]

Do you always ask for the "must work at least x amount of hours per day it week " to be removed. Would agencies actually do that.

I seriously doubt your contracts have that exact wording in them regarding hours.

[Butcheroo]

Educating your "line manager"

I seriously doubt your contracts have that exact wording in them regarding hours.

They don't say times but always say minimum 7.5 per day etc

I am reading a new one now which says

Professional day - minimum of 7.5 hours being the estimate number of hours per day for completion of the project or such hours as ate reasonably requested by the client and required for the project.

I have seen similar on every contract. Surely if it did not say Anything the actual tasks would have to be detailed in the contract so you don't take the piss

Has anyone got a contract with no hours mentioned at all.