Software developer contracts

[SueEllen]

Is a clause like this sufficient to prove that a contract is outside IR35?



I'll still get QDOS to check it but I like to have discussions when I'm learning.

Nope. While that statement is helpful I suggest you read the guides again.

Btw if you use the search on this site there are many threads which show you clear examples of how to be out of IR35 in practise not just in theory. The biggest thing is don't let anyone on the client site micro-manage you.

[MoodyBlue]

Hi,

I've read only some of the articles here; Guide to Contracts - Contract help for IT Contractors :: Contractor UK

Working my way through them now though. Are you able to explain why that isn't good enough? The contract has a lot that reads like it will exempt me from IR35

[SueEllen]

Hi,

I've read only some of the articles here; Guide to Contracts - Contract help for IT Contractors :: Contractor UK

Working my way through them now though. Are you able to explain why that isn't good enough? The contract has a lot that reads like it will exempt me from IR35

IR35 is a tax regulation. The clause which you posted without other clauses in your contract just puts you outside employment legislation. In other words it just makes it clear that you are not an employee which doesn't on its own put you out of IR35.

The PCG website has more information about IR35.

I strongly suggest as the legislation is confusing:
1. You take time to read and digest what you have read
2. Pay for the contract to be IR35 reviewed

[captainham]

Hi,

I've read only some of the articles here; Guide to Contracts - Contract help for IT Contractors :: Contractor UK

Working my way through them now though. Are you able to explain why that isn't good enough? The contract has a lot that reads like it will exempt me from IR35

Have you seen the official one from HMRC? Pay attention to the quoted examples in particular, they can tell you a lot:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ir35/guidance.pdf

[captainham]

And page 5 of this one talks about the key aspects of IR35; subsequent pages talk about other points, which are all valid, but "The Big 3" are generally regarded as those on P5:

http://www.nixonwilliams.com/images/...35%20Guide.pdf

[MoodyBlue]

I will certainly get it reviewed by QDOS. Like I mentioned, I just like to learn about this for myself too.

My contract is actually titled as Supplier agreement, not been able to find anything to say whether that matters? But it has things like MOO, right to sub, right to take on other work.

I know that the work practice is what's important at the end of the day though - it's what I've been moaning about since the first post.

[MoodyBlue]

Have you seen the official one from HMRC? Pay attention to the quoted examples in particular, they can tell you a lot:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ir35/guidance.pdf

Yep - downloaded the other night, read about half of it so far.

And page 5 of this one talks about the key aspects of IR35; subsequent pages talk about other points, which are all valid, but "The Big 3" are generally regarded as those on P5:

http://www.nixonwilliams.com/images/...35%20Guide.pdf

Thanks will read that too.

Soooo much to read!

[captainham]

And lastly, the key point: at the end of the day, what's written in the contract is pretty much useless when deciding if you are in/out of IR35.

You can have the best contract in the world (wording-wise), but if your actual working practices mean you are treated more like a regular employee (being directed/controlled by a manager, performance reviews, using subsidised canteen, being given tasks to complete that are not part of your contract, etc), and if HMRC find this out (by investigating you and subsequently interviewing the client), then they will ignore your contract and point to your working practices as proof of employment.

So by all means get your contract as IR35-friendly as possible (and indeed you should), but you need to understand it is not just words on paper that decide IR35 status, it's how you act/behave as a person in business for yourself.


Next time, I might try 1 post instead of 3 separate ones

[MoodyBlue]

And lastly, the key point: at the end of the day, what's written in the contract is pretty much useless when deciding if you are in/out of IR35.

You can have the best contract in the world (wording-wise), but if your actual working practices mean you are treated more like a regular employee (being directed/controlled by a manager, performance reviews, using subsidised canteen, being given tasks to complete that are not part of your contract, etc), and if HMRC find this out (by investigating you and subsequently interviewing the client), then they will ignore your contract and point to your working practices as proof of employment.

So by all means get your contract as IR35-friendly as possible (and indeed you should), but you need to understand it is not just words on paper that decide IR35 status, it's how you act/behave as a person in business for yourself.

Next time, I might try 1 post instead of 3 separate ones

Check my very first post. I can't see how any one in my line of work can be working in a team with other permies, with a manager and not be directed, simply ludicrous. I wouldn't think I would work on tasks that are not related to the project however.

Actually, the project isn't explicitly specified - should it be?

[northernladuk]

Check my very first post. I can't see how any one in my line of work can be working in a team with other permies, with a manager and not be directed, simply ludicrous. I wouldn't think I would work on tasks that are not related to the project however.

Actually, the project isn't explicitly specified - should it be?

Read the IR35 articles and find out. Time to stand on your own feet.