What should a contract work schedule say?

[yetanotherbob]

If it just says 'XYZ developer', surely that can't be good.
(Sounds like a 'post holder' or 'resource').

Should there be concrete deliverables listed there.
Do seasoned contractors spend time in the beginning of their contracts to write up a proper project schedule with milestones etc. ?

[northernladuk]

If it just says 'XYZ developer', surely that can't be good.
(Sounds like a 'post holder' or 'resource').

Titles are meaningless. They can't pin anything on you from a title. Also you provide services and one of those services could be as an XYZ developer. Clients make the names up so it's not really your problem as long as everything else is covered.

Should there be concrete deliverables listed there.
Do seasoned contractors spend time in the beginning of their contracts to write up a proper project schedule with milestones etc. ?

Am a bit surprised at this question from someone that has been on the boards as much as you. The major differences between a permie and a contractor is the way we work. A permie has a role and does whatever he is asked. You deliver a product/solution/service, whatever you want to call it but that has to have a very detailed list of deliverables. Without it you become a resource to the company than be directed and controlled as the client see fit. This is contractor suicide.

Once you sit at your desk it's too late whatever you write. You have been taken on with the a remit that you have signed for. If that remit does not have deliverables you will be seen to be under D&C. The horse has bolted once you are at your desk. What you are talking about there is just a plan for the client, not for your contract.

I thought you had already done a number of contracts or are you looking to start your first one?

[yetanotherbob]

Thanks for the reply.
I've contracted with 3 clients so far. All of them had detailed work schedules specified early on.

At the last client, I created one based on what was verbally agreed with the client before each extension and the client reviewed it.

Negotiating with a new client at the moment and the work schedule sent doesn't specify much. Ostensibly that's because they first want me to sign a NDA before they'll talk about it and hopefully that will make it more detailed..
Hopefully it'll all get sorted before I start but wondering if this is usual.

[SueEllen]

Thanks for the reply.
I've contracted with 3 clients so far. All of them had detailed work schedules specified early on.

At the last client, I created one based on what was verbally agreed with the client before each extension and the client reviewed it.

Negotiating with a new client at the moment and the work schedule sent doesn't specify much. Ostensibly that's because they first want me to sign a NDA before they'll talk about it and hopefully that will make it more detailed..
Hopefully it'll all get sorted before I start but wondering if this is usual.

If you done it before then do it again.

If you are in the same area of work then copy one of your previous ones and get ensure the client can see it so they can amend it.

[TheFaQQer]

You deliver a product/solution/service, whatever you want to call it but that has to have a very detailed list of deliverables. Without it you become a resource to the company than be directed and controlled as the client see fit. This is contractor suicide.

Go on then....

I've never agreed with that idea. I can't think of a contract where I've had a detailed list of deliverables, and yet I would never think of myself as being a pseudo-employee. I'm engaged to work on specific projects, but rarely have any deliverables been specified, and almost certainly not in the contract paperwork.

Does that mean that the client exercises D&C? Absolutely not. Clients engage me because of my expertise, not because I'm an employee who they can tell what to do and how to do it.

I don't believe that to be contractor suicide.

My current contract describes me as "Consultant" which suits me fine

[northernladuk]

Go on then....

I've never agreed with that idea. I can't think of a contract where I've had a detailed list of deliverables, and yet I would never think of myself as being a pseudo-employee. I'm engaged to work on specific projects, but rarely have any deliverables been specified, and almost certainly not in the contract paperwork.

Does that mean that the client exercises D&C? Absolutely not. Clients engage me because of my expertise, not because I'm an employee who they can tell what to do and how to do it.

I don't believe that to be contractor suicide.

My current contract describes me as "Consultant" which suits me fine

Yup I will hold my hand up and agree with this. Reading back I have worded it badly and deliverables might not have been the right term but I would expect clear definition and/or responsibilities of the role. Enough to be able to point out to the client when he asks me to do something that isn't part of the role that the task doesn't meet my responsibilities if need be. I want something to protect me from an ambiguous piece of work request and I can manage D&C from the client. Also enough so it is clear to someone like HMRC exactly what I do and don't do. We all know it is a paper waving exercise that in reality doesn't mean much but I want to make sure i have it non the less... but again sounds like me being overly pedantic again...

[rossmohax]

I'm engaged to work on specific projects, but rarely have any deliverables been specified, and almost certainly not in the contract paperwork.

Does that mean that the client exercises D&C? Absolutely not. Clients engage me because of my expertise, not because I'm an employee who they can tell what to do and how to do it.

I don't believe that to be contractor suicide.

My current contract describes me as "Consultant" which suits me fine

How does it play with IR35 requirement to specify "output" of your engagement, rather than "input" in your paperwork? Having a daily rate agreed on the contract being signed, it still not clear how to specify deliverables. I think I'll round up days spent on bigish tasks accomplished or onging and invoice client, but wanted to ask how do other IT consultants do it?

[SueEllen]

How does it play with IR35 requirement to specify "output" of your engagement, rather than "input" in your paperwork? Having a daily rate agreed on the contract being signed, it still not clear how to specify deliverables. I think I'll round up days spent on bigish tasks accomplished or onging and invoice client, but wanted to ask how do other IT consultants do it?

Have a look at all the other threads on IR35 using the search faclity.

Once you do you will realise a lot of it is how you conduct yourself at ClientCo and make that impression without winding up people at ClientCo.