how many hours in a German day?

[Pondlife]

When working in Munich, the people there (all external contractors either via their own company or working as a permie for a consultancy) all worked an 8hr day like clockwork, arriving at the office between 7 and 9, always eating together for 30 mins lunch and once their 8 hrs of work time was complete then they were out of the door within the minute.

The exact same scenario occured in Hamburg & Stuttgart for other firms.

This.

You can set your watch by it.

[psychocandy]

Nein aint it

[chef]

Nein aint it

Ja

[darmstadt]

Maybe I'm the exception but my working day is what I determine it to be, depending upon the workload. For example this week:

Monday - 6.5 hours
Tuesday - 8,75 hours
Wednesday - 9 hours
Thursday - 6.5 hours
Friday- sit in the cafe in town

Practically everywhere I've worked I've set my own hours and at contract start I have always said that as long as the work gets done then that will be what I work and they've always agreed with that. As it is, nearly all my contracts have a start date and quite often an end date but no fixed hours nor hours per day or week but hours per contract. Most Germans though tend to get into work early and leave early (I worked at a bank in Frankfurt where they would schedule meetings for 7:30 in the morning. Also at the same bank, if I couldn't find a parking space I used to go home instead.) I have only once had a contract where it stated 'working day' and that was through a UK agency and was down near Munich. When I asked them exactly what that was I was told to do what others did which was difficult as everyone worked flexi-time. I have never had such a contract again as I've never worked for a UK agency since!

Most companies here have agreements with either the union or Betreibsrat to the hours to be worked and how they are worked but this does not apply to contractors. I think you'll find that as long as you're there during the core hours and make sure that the work is done and are willing to be flexible, most people don't mind what hours you work.

(Oh yeah, I also start charging from the minute I set foot on the premises to the minute I leave, someone might start a work discussion with you in the lift! Also charge for any breaks unless I leave the premises.)

[darrenb]

Well at this place, people seem to work pretty flexibly too. In fact, even when I only do 37-38 hours a week, I find I'm doing more hours than anyone else in the company. That's why I was bowled over to be called in and asked to explain a few minutes difference with an expectation they never laid out in the first place.

The worry in this situation would be that the company has got into some financial trouble and is scrabbling for excuses to delay payment.

[IR35FanClub]

Nein aint it

Ah you beat me to it, though I was going to say Nein, nein, nein.

[darrenb]

Maybe I'm the exception but my working day is what I determine it to be, depending upon the workload. For example this week:

Monday - 6.5 hours
Tuesday - 8,75 hours
Wednesday - 9 hours
Thursday - 6.5 hours
Friday- sit in the cafe in town

Practically everywhere I've worked I've set my own hours and at contract start I have always said that as long as the work gets done then that will be what I work and they've always agreed with that.

OK, fair enough. Now, assuming you're on a day rate, what do you do if the client says mid-way through the contract, "Given the hours you've worked, we've changed our mind. We'd like to switch you to an hourly rate.... retroactively. So please rewrite your invoices, or we might not pay you."

How would you react to that?

[Ignis Fatuus]

OK, fair enough. Now, assuming you're on a day rate, what do you do if the client says mid-way through the contract, "Given the hours you've worked, we've changed our mind. We'd like to switch you to an hourly rate.... retroactively. So please rewrite your invoices, or we might not pay you."

How would you react to that?

1. suggest to them that it might be illegal to do so, and therefore bad for both of you.
2. If they insist, get the request in writing.
3. Give them whatever they want, in such a way that your income doesn't change. I.e. make up invoices with the required number of hours.
4. Silently award them a ticket out of your life, to be used at the next opportunity convenient for you. They just discarded the moral right to be treated properly.

[darmstadt]

OK, fair enough. Now, assuming you're on a day rate, what do you do if the client says mid-way through the contract, "Given the hours you've worked, we've changed our mind. We'd like to switch you to an hourly rate.... retroactively. So please rewrite your invoices, or we might not pay you."

How would you react to that?

Wouldn't happen:

- I don't do day rate contracts, just hourly. When we discuss the contract they tend to be written with a start and end date and how many hours to be worked between those 2 dates. The rest is basically up to me and whoever I am working with

- if that did ever happen I would ask for a new contract, put my rate up, do a week of 90 hours and hand in my notice. I also think you'll probably find it illegal

[Ignis Fatuus]

...
- if that did ever happen I would ask for a new contract, put my rate up, do a week of 90 hours and hand in my notice. I also think you'll probably find it illegal

WHS.

The legal way to do it would be to issue credit notes for the existing invoices and then raise new invoices: let them stick that in their accounting system. At least it would leave a trail of what happened.

Edit: the obvious fly in the ointment here is the client's threat not to pay if you don't do as they say. They are not justified in doing so, but your response depends on your attitude to that threat:
1. logical.
"My invoices are good. You have no justification for withholding payment."
Pro: it's logical and right.
Con: you don't get paid.
2. goal-oriented.
"OK". Then make up hourly invoices that give the same result. Then leave at a time and in a way of your choosing.
Pro: you get paid.
Con: you have been pwned out of fear.

I should emphasize again though that the client has done 2 things wrong:
1. forced you to change your contract retrospectively, and possibly to lie in order to suit them.
2. made a threat to abuse their power, to your serious cost.

Both actions tore up the rule book and indicated that you should write them out of your life. If they get away with it once they'll do it again.