Reply to: how many hours in a German day?

[darrenb]

Obvious reply I suppose, but companies aren't doing it, people who work for companies are doing it, because it achieves what they want, regardless of whether it is good for the company or not.

True, but still, far too easy for the CEO to say, "It's not the company's fault, it was 'rogue elements within the company.' Like, er, the HR department."

Time for execs to stop hiding behind goons. Actions have consequences, nobody can avoid that universal law.

[Ignis Fatuus]

It may be "standard," but it always baffles me what companies hope to achieve by harrassing the very people who are trying to keep their systems alive.

Surely no better way of shooting yourself in the foot.

Obvious reply I suppose, but companies aren't doing it, people who work for companies are doing it, because it achieves what they want, regardless of whether it is good for the company or not.

[darrenb]

That's the standard MO of most HR departments all over the world.

It may be "standard," but it always baffles me what companies hope to achieve by harrassing the very people who are trying to keep their systems alive.

Surely no better way of shooting yourself in the foot.

[bless 'em all]

I just signed a contract that doesn't specify any number of hours at all, only the hourly rate and the number of 'Professional Days' the client expects each week. The client will sign off any time-sheet without any fuss which totals <40 hours for the week.

I don't plan on being professional for more than 40 hours per week.

Public sector, gotta love em.

[NotAllThere]

Possibly they were counting on my not knowing my rights

That's the standard MO of most HR departments all over the world.

[darrenb]

I should emphasize again though that the client has done 2 things wrong:
1. forced you to change your contract retrospectively, and possibly to lie in order to suit them.
2. made a threat to abuse their power, to your serious cost.

Both actions tore up the rule book and indicated that you should write them out of your life. If they get away with it once they'll do it again.

I read so many stories on CUK without endings, where the OP didn't come back to report on what happened. Well, I'm the OP here, and this is what happened. It worked out well for at least one of the parties involved.

I refused to sign the retroactive terms. I didn't change my invoices or work more than 8 hours to "compensate". I felt tense about it, and for a few weeks there it looked like the Cuban Missile Crisis, but what happened eventually is that HR basically backed down and didn't challenge me any more. They did harrass me a bit by making me chase invoices, and leave me worrying about the company's financial state, but at this stage everything is paid up, and I'm safe.

The client has been undergoing some difficulties. Their product has had a huge spike of popularity, but on the technical side they have been struggling to keep up with demand. At around the same time I left, a lot of other team members left as well. Consequently, when my contract ended, the client made multiple requests for me to continue. I declined. In a way I am glad they did not treat me well, because if they had, I would have felt morally obliged to stick by them, deal with the chaos they had let grow, brave the freezing German winter, navigate the horrendous city traffic.... taking a step back, I realize I don't need any of that. I'm far from it now.

By the way, although it was my PM who was talking to me, I'm pretty sure the whole thing was instigated by the HR/Accounts people. They never liked me because when I started there, I bypassed their processes and was picked directly by the CEO. This episode is the best example among many I know of HR acting sharply against the interests of the organization it is supposed to be serving.

Possibly they were counting on my not knowing my rights in Germany. For any other freelancers working here, note that there is a well-defined legal process for collecting on invoices that does not require hiring an expensive lawyer. Also, remember to insist on 7 day terms in the case of a new client. It limits their ability to play on your fears.

[darrenb]

Supposing, they go the mad dog route, and decide not to pay the invoices I've sent them (nothing overdue yet). What would be my recourse? I know what I would do in England: late fees, collections, Small Claims Court, etc. But do equivalents exist in Germany? I've talked to some contractors here who got ripped off by clients and felt there was nothing they could do except go through recruiters in future.

[darrenb]

Thanks for your advice. Some good tips there, and a lot of what I was thinking myself.

The contract runs for another six weeks. After this I wouldn't extend. I have an old client that wants to take me back anyway.

So I don't really need to curry favour, but I'm still worried about getting paid in the case of a dispute arising. Supposing, they go the mad dog route, and decide not to pay the invoices I've sent them (nothing overdue yet). What would be my recourse? I know what I would do in England: late fees, collections, Small Claims Court, etc. But do equivalents exist in Germany? I've talked to some contractors here who got ripped off by clients and felt there was nothing they could do except go through recruiters in future.

[Ignis Fatuus]

...
- if that did ever happen I would ask for a new contract, put my rate up, do a week of 90 hours and hand in my notice. I also think you'll probably find it illegal

WHS.

The legal way to do it would be to issue credit notes for the existing invoices and then raise new invoices: let them stick that in their accounting system. At least it would leave a trail of what happened.

Edit: the obvious fly in the ointment here is the client's threat not to pay if you don't do as they say. They are not justified in doing so, but your response depends on your attitude to that threat:
1. logical.
"My invoices are good. You have no justification for withholding payment."
Pro: it's logical and right.
Con: you don't get paid.
2. goal-oriented.
"OK". Then make up hourly invoices that give the same result. Then leave at a time and in a way of your choosing.
Pro: you get paid.
Con: you have been pwned out of fear.

I should emphasize again though that the client has done 2 things wrong:
1. forced you to change your contract retrospectively, and possibly to lie in order to suit them.
2. made a threat to abuse their power, to your serious cost.

Both actions tore up the rule book and indicated that you should write them out of your life. If they get away with it once they'll do it again.

[darmstadt]

OK, fair enough. Now, assuming you're on a day rate, what do you do if the client says mid-way through the contract, "Given the hours you've worked, we've changed our mind. We'd like to switch you to an hourly rate.... retroactively. So please rewrite your invoices, or we might not pay you."

How would you react to that?

Wouldn't happen:

- I don't do day rate contracts, just hourly. When we discuss the contract they tend to be written with a start and end date and how many hours to be worked between those 2 dates. The rest is basically up to me and whoever I am working with

- if that did ever happen I would ask for a new contract, put my rate up, do a week of 90 hours and hand in my notice. I also think you'll probably find it illegal

[Ignis Fatuus]

OK, fair enough. Now, assuming you're on a day rate, what do you do if the client says mid-way through the contract, "Given the hours you've worked, we've changed our mind. We'd like to switch you to an hourly rate.... retroactively. So please rewrite your invoices, or we might not pay you."

How would you react to that?

1. suggest to them that it might be illegal to do so, and therefore bad for both of you.
2. If they insist, get the request in writing.
3. Give them whatever they want, in such a way that your income doesn't change. I.e. make up invoices with the required number of hours.
4. Silently award them a ticket out of your life, to be used at the next opportunity convenient for you. They just discarded the moral right to be treated properly.

[darrenb]

Maybe I'm the exception but my working day is what I determine it to be, depending upon the workload. For example this week:

Monday - 6.5 hours
Tuesday - 8,75 hours
Wednesday - 9 hours
Thursday - 6.5 hours
Friday- sit in the cafe in town

Practically everywhere I've worked I've set my own hours and at contract start I have always said that as long as the work gets done then that will be what I work and they've always agreed with that.

OK, fair enough. Now, assuming you're on a day rate, what do you do if the client says mid-way through the contract, "Given the hours you've worked, we've changed our mind. We'd like to switch you to an hourly rate.... retroactively. So please rewrite your invoices, or we might not pay you."

How would you react to that?

[IR35FanClub]

Nein aint it

Ah you beat me to it, though I was going to say Nein, nein, nein.

[darrenb]

Well at this place, people seem to work pretty flexibly too. In fact, even when I only do 37-38 hours a week, I find I'm doing more hours than anyone else in the company. That's why I was bowled over to be called in and asked to explain a few minutes difference with an expectation they never laid out in the first place.

The worry in this situation would be that the company has got into some financial trouble and is scrabbling for excuses to delay payment.

[darmstadt]

Maybe I'm the exception but my working day is what I determine it to be, depending upon the workload. For example this week:

Monday - 6.5 hours
Tuesday - 8,75 hours
Wednesday - 9 hours
Thursday - 6.5 hours
Friday- sit in the cafe in town

Practically everywhere I've worked I've set my own hours and at contract start I have always said that as long as the work gets done then that will be what I work and they've always agreed with that. As it is, nearly all my contracts have a start date and quite often an end date but no fixed hours nor hours per day or week but hours per contract. Most Germans though tend to get into work early and leave early (I worked at a bank in Frankfurt where they would schedule meetings for 7:30 in the morning. Also at the same bank, if I couldn't find a parking space I used to go home instead.) I have only once had a contract where it stated 'working day' and that was through a UK agency and was down near Munich. When I asked them exactly what that was I was told to do what others did which was difficult as everyone worked flexi-time. I have never had such a contract again as I've never worked for a UK agency since!

Most companies here have agreements with either the union or Betreibsrat to the hours to be worked and how they are worked but this does not apply to contractors. I think you'll find that as long as you're there during the core hours and make sure that the work is done and are willing to be flexible, most people don't mind what hours you work.

(Oh yeah, I also start charging from the minute I set foot on the premises to the minute I leave, someone might start a work discussion with you in the lift! Also charge for any breaks unless I leave the premises.)