65k or £450 p/d

[geoffreywhereveryoumaybe]

Like the Flea!

Had me rubbing the screen and then thinking I had a flea inside the laptop.

Doh!

[northernladuk]

Had me rubbing the screen and then thinking I had a flea inside the laptop.

Doh!

LOL... and have you tried moving the sliders on SimonMac's avatar yet??

[MyUserName]

Please explain. How is the tax man going to know that he was planning on staying at the company for years? If the contract is outside IR35 and his working conditions outside IR35 then he still has no employee rights - no holidays or sick pay, no redundancy, no exployee rights.

It is not as clear cut as any of that. A lot of it has to do with intend of the client and intent of the contractor and the actual working relationship involved.

If you are working as a contractor purely because you get to keep more money that way then you are walking into exactly what IR35 was designed to trap.

The role that the client is trying to fill is one of an employee, if you fill it with a contractor then that pretty much makes him a disguised employee and inside IR35.

[d000hg]

Contracting is not an option in your situation unless you want to be looking over your shoulder every day and have the potential of losing everything you own a few years down the line.

Unless you go contract and opt in to IR35.

[northernladuk]

Unless you go contract and opt in to IR35.

A very good point indeed. I was (possibly/as usually incorrectly) assuming a permie salary and benefits would have made this a pretty unattractive option.

[jamesbrown]

A very good point indeed. I was (possibly/as usually incorrectly) assuming a permie salary and benefits would have made this a pretty unattractive option.

450pd for 240 days per year, assuming 60% of take home under a caught scenario, roughly equates to that 65k per year salary, so very roughly speaking, it's pretty unattractive. On a purely financial basis, the permie position sounds better and, without the other benefits of being a contractor (i.e. not being treated like a permie and, by the sounds of it, not really wanting to be a contractor), it sounds pretty clear cut to me. Any movement upwards on that 65k?

[Scoi]

Depending on the area of oil and gas, 65k is a good full time wage and usually 10+ years experience. My current ClientCo is trying to switch me to permie so have a similar decision to make.

Things to think about:

O&G companies are swamped one year and dead the next so the promise of a long contract is worthless, that's why most of us are on 6 month contracts with one weeks notice at any time, including within the contract period. How important is job security to you. If you prove yourself as a contractor they will let permies around you leave before letting you go. If you're average you get benched. if you're average and expensive you get benched first.

Fortunately companies are quiet when their neighbours are in need of contractors, so outside the 7 year dip it's quite easy to find a role if you're not too fussed on switching locations or have a warchest to last while you wait.

Permies at current ClientCo work 35 hour weeks, take that into consideration along with benefits/sick/holidays etc.

Do you want to and are you good enough to become principal/chief/director? Being a permie stuck in the same role for 5 years is tulip when you would take home double being a contractor. If the company sees you becoming the next xxxxx then the enjoyment and pay in the next role may be a big factor.

IR35 is a gamble in engineering if you dont have the right contract or conditions. We are generally brought in to fill a gap on a project where they dont have the resources or right skill mix for the year or 2 the project runs, sounds exactly like temporary staff. It's highly unlikely you will get investigated but if you do, you lose all the financial benefits of being a contractor, a contract of 'years' needs to be sorted. I now have 3 at current clientco for each project i'm involved in with a explanations as to why current permies can't do the role and i make sure i do different hours etc to do as much as i can to highlight that i am not permie in disguise. Fellow contractor was in the same ClientCo for 7 years and was fine with IR35.

A 450 day rate should see you around the £6k per month after everything taken into account.

Its a personal decision, do you want the long term stability and benefits or the fast cash with risk attached.

[d000hg]

450pd for 240 days per year, assuming 60% of take home under a caught scenario, roughly equates to that 65k per year salary, so very roughly speaking, it's pretty unattractive.

Presumably that's why they're offering £65k then. Is it unattractive when you've factored in 4 weeks holiday?

Can anyone do the maths proper, I don't know how it works once you factor in both NI types and IR35 Tax Calculator - IR35 Tax Calculators, Contracting News, Guides and Solutions for UK Contractors reckons even inside IR35, £450 is worth a chunk more - but all these calculators use slightly different systems.

A very good point indeed. I was (possibly/as usually incorrectly) assuming a permie salary and benefits would have made this a pretty unattractive option.

I hadn't thought about benefits other than holiday though. On a £65k job you'd presumably expect a decent package like matched pension and maybe even healthcare?

[jamesbrown]

Presumably that's why they're offering £65k then. Is it unattractive when you've factored in 4 weeks holiday?

But no other benefits. A 65k employment package will likely come with significant extras. There's an element of subjectivity of course, but it doesn't sound like the OP really wants to become a contractor, so there would presumably have to be a bigger financial incentive. I don't see one on 450pd under a caught scenario. Anyway, enough mindless speculation for one day. Time to do some proper work

[Segush]

It pretty much depends on your personal situation. I would have stayed in my previous staff job if I had been on that salary. But I got stuck after 5 years and had to leave or be happy with what I was given. Now on my first contract I would not be able to afford working here (with all the cost associated with renting commuting to work etc) with that staff package, it would just not work for me unless I were considering moving here....