All responsabilities but zero benefits Umbrella wants me to be the Director.

[Asspain]

Hi there,

This is my first time posting, so take it easy... . I just got my first gig in Ireland, and the agent has recommended me an Umbrella: UmbrellaX.
I got the following email from them:

"Thank you for taking the time to speak with today regarding our services, I have attached some general information regarding the options we provide to contractors.

As discussed, our 365Platinum option may be the most suitable option for you, it is for individuals who want the benefits of being a Company Director combined with the convenience of an umbrella company. Under this option you would join an existing company as a Director/Shareholder. We will deal with all invoicing, bookkeeping, payroll, PAYE/VAT/Tax/CRO returns for the company. Your payment would be processed by us on the day that we receive payment from Reperio, and all tax/prsi is paid on a monthly PAYE basis. There are no setup or exit fees, and I would offer you a reduced fixed monthly fee of €150 (normally €200) as you were referred by AgentX, which after tax relief is less than €19 per week. I have attached a computation showing the typical income based on the figures discussed."


So am I wrong? or they want me to take full responsability over the contract? I mean: there are 2 ways for fullfilling a contract: joining an umbrella company(so you are a merely PAYE worker, and all responsabilities belongs to the umbrella) or from a LTD being the director/stackholder, in this case you are the responsible from he point of view of law.

what happens here is that I guess that they are tryng to get the money (Umbrella) from the invoices using the second way but payng me like the first one. Isnt this unfair? I mean they are offering me a 60% of take home incoming, they want me to pay me like a contractor PAYE but in the other hand I am going to take all the responsabilities? what are the implications? If the client client doesnt want to pay I will not receive the money and the Umbrella wont have the obligation to pay me, am I right?

[Wanderer]

what are the implications?

I know nothing of the company you mention and I'm sure it's all above board but the fact that they want to become a director of your company disturbs me. It's quite likely that your company will hold significant cash reserves at various times and if they are a director then you have to wonder how your company assets are ring fenced (or not).

If you don't want to run a company then go umbrella. If you are going to form a LTD company then you are going to have to learn how it runs and deal with the responsibilities of being a company director.

There is no reason why you can't have an accountant who does pretty much everything for you but don't make them a director who can control of your company.

Also be wary of the calculators offered by people, they sometimes make "assumptions" which make the trading structure look more attractive than it actually is....

monthly fee of €150 (normally €200) as you were referred by AgentX, which after tax relief is less than €19 per week

Wow, that's a big discount. I can guarantee you that the agency are getting a referral fee out of it though. I don't know much about the trading structures in Ireland but I suggest you shop around...

[Asspain]

first contract

I am sorry wanderer, perhaps i didnt give you the correct information, lets talk with real names, the umbrella company is PRIMA UMBRELLA, this is my first contract so I didnt really own a LTD,
I want to join an Umbrella company as a normal PAYE employer without directors LTD responsability, but what sounds odd for me is that they already have an already created LTD company and they want me to join that LTD as a director/shareholder. It sounds unfair because I am going to earn money as a PAYE (60% of home inconme) but I am going to have the same responsability as a director/stackholder is this normal? perhaps I am wrong but the main difference between joining an umbrella as a PAYE regurlar worker and as like owning a LTD company are:

1. As a normal PAYE worker contractor, I dont have the same responsabilities than the ones of a LTD director.
2. If for some reason the my agent doesnt get paid by the client, I am in my right to get paid by the umbrella company. because it is not my problem.
3. as a PAYER worker contractor my expected/normal home income in IRELAND is 60% but in the case of owning a LTD has to ve higher.

What I think they are tryng to do is to pay me as a normal PAYE worker (60% of home income) but having the same responsabilities of someone that own a LTD, wich I think is unfair.
If they want me to join theri LTD as a Director/stackholder I should demand more than a 60%.. am I right> what do you think?

[Sockpuppet]

This isn't an umbrella. It's a Ltd they are running.

If you want to be paid like PAYE just go to another brolly, if you're not happy with it tell them and go else where.

[MarillionFan]

This isn't an umbrella. It's a Ltd they are running.

If you want to be paid like PAYE just go to another brolly, if you're not happy with it tell them and go else where.

WHS

If you don't like the way they run their affairs go with someone your happy with. Don't be forced to do something you're not happy with.

[Wanderer]

I want to join an Umbrella company as a normal PAYE employer without directors LTD responsability, but what sounds odd for me is that they already have an already created LTD company and they want me to join that LTD as a director/shareholder.

Sounds way too dodgy being a director of a company you have no control over - I'll bet they are taking a bundle of money from that arrangement otherwise why would they do it...

They can't make you a director unless you agree to this so tell them to feck off, you just want to be paid through an umbrella as an employee. Don't take any bulltulip from them.

[malvolio]

I think you might find that Ireland hasn't outlawed MSCs. Which kinda makes sense of the whole deal, doesnt' it?

[Wanderer]

I think you might find that Ireland hasn't outlawed MSCs. Which kinda makes sense of the whole deal, doesnt' it?

Yes, it's quite clearly an arrangement that HMRC would call a Managed Service Company and they aren't possible here in the UK anymore.

It would still makes me uneasy. Why would they need to be a joint director of the company? Why do they need a LTD company (or MSC) to pay the worker under PAYE? Under the old MSCs in the UK there was substantial tax to be saved but it sounds like this guy will be paying full PAYE.

But then I don't know much about how the tax system works in Ireland.