Negotiating payment for additional hours

[ecc83]

I'm in a contract that runs until June; have been offered extension (and rate increase) until end Sept. Over coming months, am going to be under increasing pressure to work extra hours in order to hit various deadlines. Have no problem doing the work, but obv. would like to minimise amount of free services being provided. Contract is non-specific wrt hours or PWD - "intermediary shall provide services at such place and times as agreed in advance with agency/client, day rate, weekly invoice, blah" or something like that.

On the one hand, considering wearing the "hardline contractor's hat" - ie. logging extra hours over some "reasonable" limit and billing pro-rata. This feels businesslike and would be distinct from the permies. Might be a tough sell though - would the agency be expected to pay that out of their margin? If not, would it ring alarm bells with the client's finance dept/bean counters if they find additional services being billed over what they believe is an all inclusive day rate?

Another approach - and one more likely to meet with warmer reception from client - is to negotiate something "under the table" wrt to billed days in lieu. Have already notified client that I'll be off for two weeks during the middle of the extension period, which obviously I wouldn't bill for, and there will likely be some slack toward the end of the project, when the hardline contractor hat wearing dude would have to quite rightly scale down his billing rather than sitting around being paid with little or nothing to do.

(Am aware this comes up a lot.. have read lots of other threads, but I'm sure this one will offer some worthwhile and insightful new angles on the topic)

[ecc83]

Should also point out that I tried something akin to the first approach in my previous contract. Didn't go over that well... client agreed to my proposed terms (weekday hours pro-rata, weekends 6 hours per day) and then made a point of letting me know that my (additional) services weren't required while the rest of the team worked all the hours God sent!

[mudskipper]

I was thinking about similar myself.

Looking at signing a year's extension - was wondering, rather than just a twelve month contract, whether to ask for something like 220 days work to be completed before n date. That way you get paid for your weekends and have more flexibility to take holiday, work a Sat and have Wed off etc. Doesn't cover longer days though (unless you speficy a day as 7.5 hours). Just a thought.

[BlasterBates]

Better off going for time in lieu, PM's don't like budget overruns, they'd rather see an absent contractor than pay extra; just need to be there when the pressure is on. I think the idea of a contract with a set number of days is the best way to go, then when you work weekends just take some time off later and bill the weekend days as normal. At least try to claim a higher rate for a weekend. If you are paid by the hour it makes it much easier.

[bobspud]

Hi,
I turned over 170k last year because I flatly refuse to give time away. So you are right to not do so.

I have two methods for handling this. Both revolve around a chat with the client.

1) If you want a professional day out of me, then my rate covers 5 professional days per week or no more than 40 hours. You are welcome to 2 hours maximum of extra time occasionally (once a month!). However if you actually want me in the office, on my phone or email for 12 - 14 every day then you have under estimated the task that you have set. therefore my rate is £550 for the first 8 hours then hours pro rata per additional hour after that.

2) normally my day rate is £550 however you wish me to set up home in your office for 6 months so my day rate will be £750 per day to cover the additional time you wish to use. However For 750 I will work as many hours as you need with no further need for Overtime. But I will not be working 14 hours for 8 hours money.

I never charge double or time and a half but I always get my rate for every hour they need my expertise.

If the client doesn't want to use your services over the 40 hours then that is their choice, and actually it quite suits me if they don't...

[psychocandy]

Hi,
I turned over 170k last year because I flatly refuse to give time away. So you are right to not do so.

I have two methods for handling this. Both revolve around a chat with the client.

1) If you want a professional day out of me, then my rate covers 5 professional days per week or no more than 40 hours. You are welcome to 2 hours maximum of extra time occasionally (once a month!). However if you actually want me in the office, on my phone or email for 12 - 14 every day then you have under estimated the task that you have set. therefore my rate is £550 for the first 8 hours then hours pro rata per additional hour after that.

2) normally my day rate is £550 however you wish me to set up home in your office for 6 months so my day rate will be £750 per day to cover the additional time you wish to use. However For 750 I will work as many hours as you need with no further need for Overtime. But I will not be working 14 hours for 8 hours money.

I never charge double or time and a half but I always get my rate for every hour they need my expertise.

If the client doesn't want to use your services over the 40 hours then that is their choice, and actually it quite suits me if they don't...

Wish every contractor would be like this. Trouble is when you work with a client whos got a few contractors on board theres always one who is soft as tulipe and will work for free - so it makes you look like an awkward twat when you dont.

Got one like this here. Works weekends for free. **** that.

[SimonMac]

My approach is Mon-Fri I will work as long as the client needs me as I when working away it makes no odds rather than sit in the hotel with youporn, weekends will be billed as an additional working day, on the proviso that it will be a full day even if I am only there a couple of hours.

I like to think it presents me as flexible to the business needs but also not a push over

[BolshieBastard]

Hi,
I turned over 170k last year because I flatly refuse to give time away. So you are right to not do so.

I have two methods for handling this. Both revolve around a chat with the client.

1) If you want a professional day out of me, then my rate covers 5 professional days per week or no more than 40 hours. You are welcome to 2 hours maximum of extra time occasionally (once a month!). However if you actually want me in the office, on my phone or email for 12 - 14 every day then you have under estimated the task that you have set. therefore my rate is £550 for the first 8 hours then hours pro rata per additional hour after that.

2) normally my day rate is £550 however you wish me to set up home in your office for 6 months so my day rate will be £750 per day to cover the additional time you wish to use. However For 750 I will work as many hours as you need with no further need for Overtime. But I will not be working 14 hours for 8 hours money.

I never charge double or time and a half but I always get my rate for every hour they need my expertise.

If the client doesn't want to use your services over the 40 hours then that is their choice, and actually it quite suits me if they don't...

WHS.

Until people start acting like this instead of asking for 'overtime' we will always be treated like permies.

[ecc83]

Have opened discussions with client, along the lines of "an additional days worth of services needs to result in an additional billed day". Their response is "extra hours during the week are included in daily rate, but weekends are billable."



The case continues...

[Scoobos]

Another who charges 2 daily rates - A "Standard" (7.5hr) and "Extended" (charge for 1.5 days give up to 14 hrs)

There are times, in my work that I have to pull stupid shifts like 36hrs etc - if this happens I prorata it and "expect" a kickback on top, if they want my services again (which of course, after staying monster shifts when everyone else runs from the problem -> they do).

I've never had an end client who disagrees with any of it.

Checking my current contract - I've got a clause that says "If I provide services to Client Co and don't claim the hours from the client, I am responsible to give the Agent the money they would have earnt, had I have claimed it!!!" - So there's a warning not to short charge customers, it may seem like a favour, but its not - especially not if future budgets for the same task are modelled off it.