Overtime rate, Nothing in contract

[northernladuk]

So you can't update the contract to include hourly rate (for overtime and travel time, as and when required?)

[TheFaQQer]

FUD. There is nothing about the contractual agreement to provide services at varying rates which constitutes an IR35 pointer.

In fact, if the rates charged are different from the standard overtime rates then the OP could even argue that is a indicator s/he is not an employee in the same way that working different hours is.

Boo

One of my contract reviews from Qdos came back as a fail with the following note:

Call out rates and standby rates are employee benefits. Should you agree any additional hours, please ensure they are charged at your normal hourly rate.

Since they provide my IR35 insurance, I'll take guidance from them.

However, the way that I would probably present this isn't an overtime charge, or a different rate, it's a new charge for deviation to the contract based on new requirements which involve a charge for additional hours in addition to a professional working day.

[TheFaQQer]

However, the way that I would probably present this isn't an overtime charge, or a different rate, it's a new charge for deviation to the contract based on new requirements which involve a charge for additional hours in addition to a professional working day.

Actually, I'd probably just say no rather than bother about things like this, to be honest.

[disarm]

I like it here. It's really friendly.

[psychocandy]

When I was permanent, I was always taxed more on overtime pay. Thought it was the case across the board.

£120 a day is just an example, depends on the job of course...

No you weren't. Really.

If you're basic pay was below tax bracket of around £42K, then it might have looked like overtime was being taxed at a higher rate if it pushed you over.

But, a permie on £50K basic with zero overtime, will pay EXACTLY the same tax as a permie on £10K basic and £40K overtime. (obviously assuming everything else the same).

[psychocandy]

So you can't update the contract to include hourly rate (for overtime and travel time, as and when required?)

Well, yes, of course there is at next renewal. At the end of the day, its a negotiated contract for business.

You say what you want to be in contract, agent/client wants what they want and you agree it.

If I was you though, fair does about the weekend work, but if its already set up for daily rate, they might be a bit off if you try to put clauses in for extra hours above 7 a day....

Of course, if they wont agree to your terms, you're within your rights to walk away if you so desire.

Personally, Im not a fan of day rates because I've heard some horror stories. But, unfortunately, thats the way a lot of contracts work. Extra hours aren't usually a problem as long as client is OK and it works both ways and they dont take the piss.

[b0redom]

Seriously, you're quibbling over an hour here or there?

Having been burned early on, I always have the chat with the person who signs my time sheets within the first week or so. I ask if they want me to:

1) Down tools at whatever the agreed hours are
2) Bill overtime
3) Have a gents agreement where I can leave early some days and work late others as required.

Almost everyone goes for option #3.

Worth trying next time, but if you're on a day rate there's probably nothing you can do in this contract but suck it up and move on.

[psychocandy]

I have notified the client I am willing to work extra hours but will charge 1.5x, and do 1 hour extra a day which means I can charge 6 days a week. (5 hr/wk *1.5 = 7.5 = 1 day).

Russell, you've got 2000+ posts? Is this a wind-up?

You need this in the contract to be honest. Are you direct or via agency? I think you need to speak to agency if contract is with them.

So you;re going to do 1 hour extra a day (no more no less?) thus doing 8 hours rather than 7 and then bill them an extra day per week?

Cant see client being happy about that to be honest. I would say a client paying you for a professional working day can expect 8 hours inclusive to be fair. So what if everyone else only works 7 - you look like a penny-pinching contractor here. Not saying always work 8 - if it aint busy do 7 by all means. In fact, do the odd 5-6 hrs a day if you've got something on or want to leave early one friday.

Chances are client wont have budget for this extra day tho. I fear they may get pissed off at your inflexibility and get someone else in who wont moan about the off hour.

If it get consistently over 8 hours a day then fair point.

Dont get me wrong again. Got bobbette contractor here who works weekends for free which I think is well stupid but you gotta be flexible a bit.

[psychocandy]

Seriously, you're quibbling over an hour here or there?

Having been burned early on, I always have the chat with the person who signs my time sheets within the first week or so. I ask if they want me to:

1) Down tools at whatever the agreed hours are
2) Bill overtime
3) Have a gents agreement where I can leave early some days and work late others as required.

Almost everyone goes for option #3.

Worth trying next time, but if you're on a day rate there's probably nothing you can do in this contract but suck it up and move on.

Spot on here. Nearly all clients will go for #3.

In my case, client doesnt give a toss so I just organise hours myself. Leave early when I want etc. No-ones moaned yet. If they ever do (unlikely) then that'll be the end of extra hours because at the moment, they do well out of the deal.

Remember, as a contractor, you wont get those crap permie reviews where you're told your time management needs looking at (i.e. you're skiving off early), they just wont renew if the work aint being done.

[russell]

Russell, you've got 2000+ posts? Is this a wind-up?

You need this in the contract to be honest. Are you direct or via agency? I think you need to speak to agency if contract is with them.

So you;re going to do 1 hour extra a day (no more no less?) thus doing 8 hours rather than 7 and then bill them an extra day per week?

Cant see client being happy about that to be honest. I would say a client paying you for a professional working day can expect 8 hours inclusive to be fair. So what if everyone else only works 7 - you look like a penny-pinching contractor here. Not saying always work 8 - if it aint busy do 7 by all means. In fact, do the odd 5-6 hrs a day if you've got something on or want to leave early one friday.

Chances are client wont have budget for this extra day tho. I fear they may get pissed off at your inflexibility and get someone else in who wont moan about the off hour.

If it get consistently over 8 hours a day then fair point.

Dont get me wrong again. Got bobbette contractor here who works weekends for free which I think is well stupid but you gotta be flexible a bit.

Next time you get a plumber in, try asking him to work an extra day for free. I run a business not a charity, the client wouldn't like it if I said "I'm just going to work 30 hours this week, that OK?".

If they don't like it then they can hire some mug who is willing to work for free, like yourself.