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Working Time Regulations

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    Working Time Regulations

    Hi there,

    I've been a limited company contractor for some time. Working hours has never been an issue to me - I agree before hand what hours I'll work (generally 8 till 4), and that's that. I run a few other businesses as well, which I inform all clients of at interview stage, so I'm rarely able to work late or work extra days than agreed.

    However, my current client has recently raised an issue with me leaving the office a bit too early the days I'm in (15 mins, to be precise). I've spoken to them about it, and it's not a major issue (its just that the project is late through no fault of my own), but they're starting to state contract terms and working time regulations to me, such as that I need to take a minimum of 30 mins lunch, instead of my usual 5 - 10 mins.

    As far as I'm aware, the working time regulations do not apply to me - and even if they do, its not my client's place to enforce them. Just wanted to see what other people's view is on this? I don't mind working a bit of extra time if I have it available, but it's rarely the case...

    As a side note - the client is exceptionally happy with the amount and quality of work I've produced throughout the project... more so than any of the staff or other contractors here. Their only gripe is with me leaving a bit early and not being very flexible when it comes to overtime (which would be unpaid on a daily basis, afaik, though extra days would be paid).

    Basically, I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about the capacity in which I provide services to them... which seems to be a very common theme with most clients I work for. Especially those that ask me to work in their office for security or privacy reasons...

    #2
    This would be raising IR35 warnibng flags for me, it sounds very much like direction and control.

    Comment


      #3
      The place I'm at now, I get in at 8:30, take a short lunch and leave before 5. Most of the permies get in around 10 to 10:30 and leave well into the evening. I've had a couple of grumbles that I'm not "fitting in with their culture". I was in a fairly polite mood so I explained that that 90 minutes in the morning gives me perfect undisturbed peace to get on with difficult stuff that needs no collaboration because the office is a noisy hell-hole once the permies are in and gossiping, I made it clear that they hired me to provide expert project management and that's exactly what they're getting, it's not really too much of their business how much lunch I take or when I go home as long as I'm getting the work done to a high standard.

      I used the example of the IBM people who are in the office for short-term consultancy, they turn up mid morning and are gone by 4pm yet IBM invoices for full days without anyone grumbling. I expect to have the same mindset applied to me, even though I'm doing far more hours than the IBM lot.

      That all said, I don't think I'll be accepting a renewal, if offered!

      Comment


        #4
        My working hours are 9 to 5 as stated in the contract with 1 hr lunch.
        I used to take 30 min lunch and leave at 4:30 pm.
        But my mgr insisted to stay still 5 and he even complained to my agent when I leave @ 4:50 pm.
        My mgr has no issues with my work, but he wanted me to stay till 5pm.

        This is my first contract renewal with him. Not quite sure to accept the next renewal if offered

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Bhanupriya View Post
          My working hours are 9 to 5 as stated in the contract with 1 hr lunch.
          I used to take 30 min lunch and leave at 4:30 pm.
          But my mgr insisted to stay still 5 and he even complained to my agent when I leave @ 4:50 pm.
          My mgr has no issues with my work, but he wanted me to stay till 5pm.

          This is my first contract renewal with him. Not quite sure to accept the next renewal if offered
          Good luck with that when the IR35 inspector comes around.....
          "Being a permy is like being married, when there's no more sex on the cards....and she's got fat."
          SlimRick

          Can't argue with that

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by The Agents View View Post
            Good luck with that when the IR35 inspector comes around.....
            You can say that again .....

            Comment


              #7
              Well, the permies all come in totally different times - they're on FlexiTime I think.

              Overall, my question was in relation to the Working Time Regulations - do they apply to contractors in any capacity?

              I've written a long email to the person who signs my timesheets, explaining the contractual relationship we have... but I'm not entirely sure if I should send it or not! I have gotten in to trouble a number of times when clients have been funny with with for one reason or another (usually late payment), and I can smell trouble ahead.

              The thing is, it's a great contract - the work is interesting, they ARE fairly relaxed (I think project management have raised an issue with me leaving 15 mins early because the project is late - though I'm quite far ahead of my work), the rate is brilliant and I'm just short of another 6 month extension, which is certainly welcome.

              This isn't a big issue right now... it's all come about because I've told them I need a few days off in a few weeks time, and there's work planned for me. If I hadn't said I was going to be off, this wouldn't have happened! Politics, hu?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Spikeh View Post
                Well, the permies all come in totally different times - they're on FlexiTime I think.

                Overall, my question was in relation to the Working Time Regulations - do they apply to contractors in any capacity?
                Nope.

                http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...lation/20/made

                However what the client can enforce on you is any regulations that are for clearly come under the Health and Safety at Work Act. This doesn't as it doesn't even have "Health and Safety" in the title.

                Originally posted by Spikeh View Post
                I've written a long email to the person who signs my timesheets, explaining the contractual relationship we have... but I'm not entirely sure if I should send it or not! I have gotten in to trouble a number of times when clients have been funny with with for one reason or another (usually late payment), and I can smell trouble ahead.
                Try and make the email shorter.

                Just point out you are in an excluded class under the legislation because you are the managing director of your limited company, and you can choose what hours you work.
                "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

                Comment


                  #9
                  OK, thanks... I did read that on the HMRC website, but it sounds quite ambiguous. I suppose I just don't want to lose the contract, but if it comes down to it, I'm not working longer hours either... it's just not feasible for me

                  Comment


                    #10
                    What do you think of this? It's a considerably shorter version of the 12 paragraph original!

                    <<
                    With respect, in reference to your comments in regards to lunch, you’re mixing up contractors with permanent employees. I am a director of my own company, and am therefore not caught under a number of the Working Time Regulations, as I am an excluded class. I am not employed by <client>; you are my client, and I am therefore within my rights to stipulate my working hours, so long as they are appropriate (we verbally agreed 8 till 4 at the interview stage) and the work is completed to a satisfactory level. I appreciate I have left 15 minutes early at times, and if 15 minutes less work per day is a problem, I will make sure I am available until 4pm every day. If you require me at any other time, I can provide you my mobile phone number and I can work remotely.

                    I am, of course, required to obey any health and safety whilst on site, and sign any confidentiality agreements etc, but the hours I work, the breaks I take and how I perform the duties set out in the contract is at my discretion. This is the legal standpoint, though of course it is in my interest to work the hours set out in the contract.
                    >>

                    Comment

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