Agency contract terms

[martinb]

Salesman?

If you're here to be a salesman you clearly want to sell us something. You can't sell anything to us until we know who we are buying from. Therefore logic dictates you want to tell us the agency you work for.

However, given the sales tactics employed so far, don't get too upset if you don't get any business.

[IT contract agent]

Yet you persist in claiming to be knowledgable on the subject of IT Recruitment. I don't see how you can be such a great salesman when you have no grasp of two of the main issues facing contractors. I'm sure you could sell a clueless BoS contractor into a client, but a serious Ltd Co contractor is going to get the contract checked (because it costs a lot less than paying IR35) and if it comes back a fail, and the agency won't make changes, I would bet most on here would turn it down. Certainly in the current market.

Ok - what exactly do you know about IT recruitment? I guess not much.

Re selling to contractors - I can sell to the best of you without you even knowing I'm doing it -

however my day is taken up by selling you to clients rather than selling to you, don't flatter yourself and think that we sell to you!! because in most cases we don’t!- The UK contract IT market is still a client driven market!!!! but I guess you already knew that??

[LlareGgub]

Back to the OP

All the agents I have had the pleasure to deal with so far have been equally prepared to walk away from negotiating changes to their "agreements" as I have been to walk away from their one-sided contracts and their attempts to ridicule, belittle or otherwise denigrate any rational discussion regarding the need for mutual agreement of reasonable B2B contractual provisions.

Is it a vain hope that agents exist that are prepared to offer B2B contract terms including equitable commercial conditions that can be amended to be ostensibly outside IR35?

Major factors making it difficult to "engage" agents in meaningful negotiation of acceptable terms include: the extent of their knowlege of contract law and how it relates to insurable risks, and;

the apparent number of contractors who appear willing to accept the standard terms dished out by the agencies.

Again, any clues regarding half-decent agencies, sorry, employment businesses, would be greatly appreciated.

[malvolio]

Oddly enough I did know that. I've also been working with half a dozen of the more switched on agencies trying to work out a better business model. Many of the big clients are looking to get your margin down under 10% and that is not a sustainable level for the average agency - you can handle it for one or two placements if it gets you in the door, but not as a long term deal. Snag is, if some other agency manages to work a way to get profitability at between 0% and 5% margin, the world will shift on its axis slightly.

So you carry on doing what you do so well, but it might be an idea to look out of the window occasionally; your current business model has a limited lifespan of around 4-5 years. Meanwhile, do not assume we're all numpties on this side of the desk. Some of us actually know exactly what we (and you) do for a living.

[Cyber Controller]

As always, LlareGgub, the "right" agency is the one with the gig you're after. If they won't offer you the T&Cs you want, make it clear from the outset that it's your way or the highway. As long as you are not asking for anything crazy (like control over the IP, licensing rights for your work or anything like that), most agents outside of the big boys (someone mentioned CP, for example) will be happy to play ball if it gets them the commission. Of course, if they themselves are fronting a big client, you have to recognise that their hands may be tied to a great extent.

[Cyber Controller]

Oh yes, and if you really can't find an agency who will offer you the T&Cs you like, join your local Businesslink, get networking, get on the phone and go direct.

[Mordac]

Ok - what exactly do you know about IT recruitment? I guess not much.

Enough - you might be surprised. I know the difference between selling a BoS and a freelance professional. A BoS isn't going to kick up much of a fuss, but if your client wants an expert, then you will need to negotiate on contract terms or risk losing the "candidate".

Re selling to contractors - I can sell to the best of you without you even knowing I'm doing it -

however my day is taken up by selling you to clients rather than selling to you, don't flatter yourself and think that we sell to you!! because in most cases we don’t!- The UK contract IT market is still a client driven market!!!! but I guess you already knew that??

I'm sure you can bulltulip for Britain old fruit, but are you really building up a contact list of good contractors who are happy to work through you (as well as being easy to sell into future clients) or are you just churning a bunch of gullible contractors who won't touch you or your agency again.
As I said, if I get my contracts checked, it's because I'm looking to avoid a hefty tax bill, not because I want to make your life difficult. If you can't grasp that simple concept, then you might as well be selling double glazing.

[LlareGgub]

Contract Agent missed the point

No surprise that Contract Agent has diverted the thread down the old "us & them" route.

Entertaining as it may be, there's little point trying to convince him that genuine Ltd. Co. contractors have real concerns about the commercial and IR35 implications of agency standard terms. Mordac has a good point, CA may do well selling double glazing...

[DaveB]

I got my current gig via Abraxus. Got the contract checked, asked for a couple of changes. They were happy to make them. I'm happy, Agent is happy, Client is happy and the agent looks competent and professional.

Dont see what CA's problem is, other than the fact he is a plonker, or possibly Australian

[IT contract agent]

I'm sure you can bulltulip for Britain old fruit, but are you really building up a contact list of good contractors who are happy to work through you (as well as being easy to sell into future clients) or are you just churning a bunch of gullible contractors who won't touch you or your agency again.
As I said, if I get my contracts checked, it's because I'm looking to avoid a hefty tax bill, not because I want to make your life difficult. If you can't grasp that simple concept, then you might as well be selling double glazing.

no bulltulip needed - selling really isn't about bulltulip - its only about influencing you thoughts.

Re contractors - I do low volume, High margin business - within specific Niche area - so It is vital that I have a network of the top contractors within that Niche. I'm sure almost every contractor who I've placed would happily work through me again - many have.


back to my original point - I agree that agencies will, and should do, everything to accommodate a contractors view on certain clauses in a contract - I've no issue with that. Why did you get so up-tight when I mentioned paying somebody to look over a contract? I can imagine what kind of contractor you would be!