Extension time - been told verbally but nothing sorted yet

[northernladuk]

Yep. Seems to make sense.....

It's not even a matter of making sense. You have no other choice. Plain black and white.

If it makes sense why can you never work these things out? It is your job/money/income you are dealing with here. Not just a bit of HR paperwork that will sort itself out like it did in permie days.

But how far do you extend the goodwill?

And anyway, surely without a written contract in place your PI insurance becomes invalid and arent you opening yourself up to IR35 just a little too? i.e turning up like a permie but with no supply contract in place?

Think about this one a little will you? PI is the very least of your problems. Turning up without a contract means you are effectively trespassing. It will be illegal for you to access their computer systems. You will not be covered by their insurances if you injure yourself yadda yadda on top of being plain stupid because there is no agreement in place for you to get paid.

IR35 has sod all to do with you turning up at a clients site without a contract. You are not in a contract so how can working practices apply?

Verbal agreements aside I would not be turning up without at minimum written agreement from the client to attend and at best a contract. We see how often people can get binned even in reception on their first day let alone legal issues.

[contractoralan]

But how far do you extend the goodwill?

There is no right and wrong answer here. It depends on your relationship with the client, your past experience with verbal agreements , your agency etc. You should not agree in advance that you will work without a contract. On the last day or two, if the the final sign off has not come through, you can decide then.

Of course, there is the problem with insurance etc. If you want to continue working and not loose those days' earnings, you can go. It is not illegal but 'may' carry a risk.

When I did this last month, I asked the program manager to send an email to the agency confirming the intention to extend and requesting that I continue on the project till the paperwork is sorted out. Agency sent me a note confirming the arrangement with a caveat that there is no obligation for them to pay unless the client pays for this informal arrangement . I was comfortable with it as I had nothing else lined up (though I was looking for other opportunities) and in a rare chance, my extension was not signed off, I did not have much to loose.

[psychocandy]

There is no right and wrong answer here. It depends on your relationship with the client, your past experience with verbal agreements , your agency etc. You should not agree in advance that you will work without a contract. On the last day or two, if the the final sign off has not come through, you can decide then.

Of course, there is the problem with insurance etc. If you want to continue working and not loose those days' earnings, you can go. It is not illegal but 'may' carry a risk.

When I did this last month, I asked the program manager to send an email to the agency confirming the intention to extend and requesting that I continue on the project till the paperwork is sorted out. Agency sent me a note confirming the arrangement with a caveat that there is no obligation for them to pay unless the client pays for this informal arrangement . I was comfortable with it as I had nothing else lined up (though I was looking for other opportunities) and in a rare chance, my extension was not signed off, I did not have much to loose.

Yeh. Sounds like a good idea to be honest. If you dont have anything else its worth taking this risk maybe?

[Wanderer]

Think about this one a little will you? PI is the very least of your problems. Turning up without a contract means you are effectively trespassing. It will be illegal for you to access their computer systems. You will not be covered by their insurances if you injure yourself yadda yadda on top of being plain stupid because there is no agreement in place for you to get paid.

If they say they will extend the contract and sort out the contract at a later date then you have a verbal agreement of an extension to contract. Email them a written confirmation of your understanding (an extension of the contract on the same terms) and if they accept you back on site then they have accepted this. I've done it before and the sky never fell on my head, though I do agree that it's definitely not a good way to do business and your first order of business must be to get the new contract sorted.

[northernladuk]

If they say they will extend the contract and sort out the contract at a later date then you have a verbal agreement of an extension to contract. Email them a written confirmation of your understanding (an extension of the contract on the same terms) and if they accept you back on site then they have accepted this. I've done it before and the sky never fell on my head, though I do agree that it's definitely not a good way to do business and your first order of business must be to get the new contract sorted.

Agreed. I wouldn't come back on the verbal only but the confirmation by email is acceptable to me and I have done it before also. Just an extra comment, I had them send this confirmation to my Ltd email address as well as my client one. If you are not allowed to access your client email how can you retrieve the email to prove you can access it if you get my meaning. A bit daft I know but easily fixed by cc'ing in the Ltd company. After all the agreement is with my Ltd not me personally.

Anything less than that and I would rather risk a day or two on the bench to get it sorted properly.

[psychocandy]

Yeh. Trouble is manager has said he wants me back and he has requested that he wants me to be renewed, however, he did add that ultimately it is not up to him.

Might be difficult getting an email I think but it sounds like the best idea...

[perplexed]

Yeh. Trouble is manager has said he wants me back and he has requested that he wants me to be renewed, however, he did add that ultimately it is not up to him.

Might be difficult getting an email I think but it sounds like the best idea...

And I hope you're getting your CV out there and pitching for other gigs?

Eggs. Baskets.

Better to have options than to be left high and dry.

[northernladuk]

Yeh. Trouble is manager has said he wants me back and he has requested that he wants me to be renewed, however, he did add that ultimately it is not up to him.
Might be difficult getting an email I think but it sounds like the best idea...

And that is EXACTLY why this process is not a good indication of renewal and not to be taken for granted. Granted in a majority of cases the manager will have an idea if it will fly or not but ultimately it is out of his hands.

The email isn't the best idea, is the bare minimum and also carries a lot of risk but at least that risk is only about you getting paid and not legal ones. The best idea is to get a contract sorted.

[JamJarST]

Yeh. Trouble is manager has said he wants me back and he has requested that he wants me to be renewed, however, he did add that ultimately it is not up to him.

Might be difficult getting an email I think but it sounds like the best idea...

I think you need to understand something here, you are being fobbed off by your manager. If he does not have power to extend you, no matter what he says, you have NOT been extended. An email from him won't help.

[Wanderer]

Yeh. Trouble is manager has said he wants me back and he has requested that he wants me to be renewed, however, he did add that ultimately it is not up to him.

Well you do it at your own risk then. You need to talk to the man with the money... It's not that hard for them to confirm that your contract is extended and the paperwork is to follow. If they won't do that then you don't come to work. Simples.