Ex army, with theft charge and seeking security clearance.

[Goulder]

Hi guys
You have prob come across this many of times but perhaps this might be a little different situation.

Myself and one other were charged with theft while serving with the british army, basically we were both owed money and took it upon ourselves too take it back and took the value of. over 1k between us!.

We went through court marshal , pleaded guilty and were both given 60 days in military jail. back in 2007. However we got solider on, because of the nature of the crime, it basically wasnt a Malicious act, it was done out of Retaliation so to speak to get back what was rightfully ours. We both left in december last year 2010. we both served 7 years active service with the british army, serving tours in afghanistan twice , cyprus, and falkland islands twice. both clean records after this.

At the moment we both work in the middle east, contracting back over in afghanistan. we had CRB checks done and the theft charge is still there, after 5 years it goes right?

Now im looking too come back to work in the uk, and have sent away my security clearance forms off.

What i would like too know is, would this charge effect my chances, i mean it was a act of retaliation!.

Would they look into the fact i then served in tours of duty for the british army after this charge.?
Any information would be great, thank you.

[wim121]

At the moment we both work in the middle east, contracting back over in afghanistan. we had CRB checks done and the theft charge is still there, after 5 years it goes right?

Five years is for a caution for a civillian (bit more than a warning, bit less than a sentence). I dont know about cautions in the army though.

However, you pleaded guilty and served time in military jail. It doesnt count as a caution or unspent conviction and as far as Im aware, is permantely on your record. You should be recorded as a convict (well ex convict).

Now im looking too come back to work in the uk, and have sent away my security clearance forms off.

What i would like too know is, would this charge effect my chances, i mean it was a act of retaliation!.

Assuredly yes. What field do you work in? IT for instance? It may be best just to apply for jobs that dont require security clearance.

It's hard to say one way or the other. But you arent squeaky clean and personally, the only people with high SC I know, are squeaky clean people.

Would they look into the fact i then served in tours of duty for the british army after this charge.?
Any information would be great, thank you.

All depends on the employer/job role. Some dont like an spent or unspent convictions at all. However if they ever ask, before you submit CRB papers, be completely honest.

For example, I have known people to get a job as an ex-con like you, even though they had to take a CRB. The thing is though, they said upfront what they did and the employer decided it wasnt relevant to the job. Some people in the same group though were shown the door, for saying they werent aware of any spent/unspent convictions, just for the CRB to come back and say otherwise. Employers dont like liars.

As for serving in the army, some employers and people love ex military as they see them as disciplined with good leadership skills. There are those as well that dont favour ex military, some may say, rightly so! I would say you will find any situation difficult as you were convicted on theft. That rules you out of a lot of work. Also you stole in a professional situation. Many companies wont want to hire a theif that may decide to steal off their company.

[Goulder]

Hi
No i work with fuel and fuel systems.
It wasn't jail, it was a corrective training centre for soliders, soldiers that go AWOL and such.
Iv been told it clears after 5 years, too a spent conviction.

So, being in the army, it doesnt give you security clearance anyway?

[wim121]

No i work with fuel and fuel systems.

It may not affect you as much then. I would imagine convictions based on health and safety would be far more of a concern than a theft conviction in your industry. I dont work in your industry though so I cant comment.

It wasn't jail, it was a corrective training centre for soliders, soldiers that go AWOL and such.
Iv been told it clears after 5 years, too a spent conviction.

I presumed it didnt disappear, turns out I was thinking of terms over two and a half years, so I looked it up:

Relevant Rehabilitation Periods

Sentence of imprisonment of more than two and a half years - Never
Prison for six months or less - 7 years*
Detention in respect of conviction in service disciplinary proceedings - 5 years*

Sounds like they may have regarded it as a disciplinary proceeding then, rather than a prison term. So for your standard employer checks, you are covered by the rehabilitation act, meaning that you dont have to declare spent convictions after a certain number of years.

However if the application form says that the post/job is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, then it must be disclosed. I would assume some SC jobs would require this.

Following linkies may help:

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q89.htm
Your rights - How a Conviction becomes Spent

So, being in the army, it doesnt give you security clearance anyway?

I would presume it would make it easier in some ways to gain SC. However as far as Im aware, it doesnt automatically clear you on all levels of SC.

[Goulder]

Thanks Win121.

Yes working with fuels and fuel systems, health and safety is a major part in the job.
I think the best way to go about it is send it off and see i suppose.

The military detention center is called (MCTC) military corrective training center.

I mean the job i have now, required a CRB check and i still got the job, and theft is massive over here in afghanistan reguarding fuel trucks and such!.

Also, if i dont pass security clearance, could i still apply for another job for the same company in 1 years time? or will they hold records that i have a theft charge?

[Sockpuppet]

If you've declared it you'll be ok. They're trying to make sure that you can't be black mailed over it so as long as you're open - lots of people have done stupid things and they accept this. SC is surprisingly easy to get - DV is where they get shirty.

Depending on your role you may already hold SC. I did when I was in the signals and it doesn't lapse for a year so it may still be in effect.

[shaunbhoy]

If you've declared it you'll be ok. They're trying to make sure that you can't be black mailed over it so as long as you're open - lots of people have done stupid things and they accept this. SC is surprisingly easy to get - DV is where they get shirty.

Depending on your role you may already hold SC. I did when I was in the signals and it doesn't lapse for a year so it may still be in effect.

Hey sockpuppet. Didn't realise you were a fellow scalyback. Good man!
Might have mentioned it before on this forum, but if you have not read a couple of books by a guy called Eddy Nugent about his time in the Signals then you ought to try them out. "Picking up the Brass" and "Map of Africa" they are called.
Hilarious stuff and really rolled back the years for me. Especially the stuff about BAOR and Catterick.

[Goulder]

Hi sockpuppet

Thats the thing i didnt declare it. i actually thought it was spent, until i was told its 5 years until it becomes spent.
I declared my speeding fine and thats it, as that happened in 2009.

Well the forms have been sent off i suppose so i will wait and see. will the agency who put it all forward contact me to say i havent got the job? or will they just leave it and not bother informing me either way.

Guess not declareing it will hinder me from getting the clearance.

[centurian]

Perhaps not what you want to hear but...

Firstly, as mentioned, a spent conviction only applies for "normal" jobs where you don't need to declare them. For CRB/SC/DV jobs, they remain forever.


I know you feel that what you did was justified, but theft against your employer is a really big deal when trying to get future work. It's one of the worst things to have on your record.

If I was looking at your application - the first thing I would think is. "Okay, so what if we have a disagreement in the future - what will he do. He maintains that he thinks it's okay he's entitled to take from his employee when he feels agrieved...."


That said, the SC agency may not be concerned about that. They will leave that decision to your employer. It's up to them to dig up the dirt and validate you are now telling the truth.

Guess not declareing it will hinder me from getting the clearance.

Almost certainly. Even failing to declare very minor offences is a big deal - even when the minor offence would have had no impact on the outcome of the security clearance. Was this the form you filled in

http://www.hmgcc.gov.uk/download/sc_supplement.pdf

Page 6 is very clear that you should have disclosed court martial convictions. If this is the case, then quite frankly, I'd be gobsmacked if you passed.

You must declare any matter which may be of relevance... ...Failure to disclose relevant circumstances of information is likely to be regarded as evidence of unreliability

[Goulder]

No, that is not the form i filled out.
I declared my speeding fine, the only reason i didnt declare the theft charge is because i thought it was spent.

It wasnt as though we went out and stole!, he owed us both money so we took the value of!, and we kept it until he payed us, its only a theft charge) because we deprived him of the things we took.

Thats why we both were kept in the british army, and continued to solider on for a further 4 years and serve tours of duty, with clean records. it was done out of revenge so to speak

Ok so if i fail this time around for security clearance?, once after 5 years my conviction becomes spent? can i reapply if a job comes along for clearance? will it effect that at all?