Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act?

[riffpie]

Thanks, I now have.

I still am not signing the opt out as I know it does not really have any implications for being within
IR35. I do not consider myself being within IR35 either, however this contract has it stated that the contract is within IR35 just because I did not want to sign the opt out or does that not matter at all? It is only the title that I see within IR35.

They're just trying to scare you, there's no IR35 implication here. Stick to your guns, they'll blink before you do.

[dave_m13]

Here is a reply from the contract dept.

The contract we have issued you has been drawn up with the Agency Worker Regulations 2011 in mind, and gives contractors protection against a number of factors when working on a Client’s site. I understand from your email that you operate your services outside of IR35, and we can re-issue your contract so that it does fall outside of IR35, however, this then removes you completely from the above mentioned regulations. This means that in the future, if you feel you are not receiving equal treatment (such as pay, holiday entitlement, bonuses etc…) to permanent staff on the Client’s site, you will be unable to make a claim.

Please let us know if you wish us to proceed with issuing a contract placing you outside of IR35 to be issued and the previous contract marked as VOID on our system.

[riffpie]

Here is a reply from the contract dept.

The contract we have issued you has been drawn up with the Agency Worker Regulations 2011 in mind, and gives contractors protection against a number of factors when working on a Client’s site. I understand from your email that you operate your services outside of IR35, and we can re-issue your contract so that it does fall outside of IR35, however, this then removes you completely from the above mentioned regulations. This means that in the future, if you feel you are not receiving equal treatment (such as pay, holiday entitlement, bonuses etc…) to permanent staff on the Client’s site, you will be unable to make a claim.

Please let us know if you wish us to proceed with issuing a contract placing you outside of IR35 to be issued and the previous contract marked as VOID on our system.

It's a bluff. They can't require you to opt out. Mentioning IR35 is a scare tactic. I know it's difficult, but call their bluff. The client has chosen you, the agent won't walk now. I spent nearly 2 days playing this game, and in the end the agent just caved and acted like nothing had happened.

[psychocandy]

WHS. Agency are either blagging it or are too thick to realise. It could be either.

As many have said, sod all to do with IR35 but they like to think so and it suits them if you opt out. Just tell them no way - its negotiable after all. Think about it, client wants you, agency are going to get a cut, and their fannying about because they'd rather you opted out.

Chances are they'll cave in but they wont forget it. I keep getting emails saying I'd forgotten to send in the opt out form and please could I do so. First two times I replied and said, umm, remember I said I wasnt going to. Still get the emails though - so I just delete now.

Not quite sure how they think an opt out is going to work when I've been with client for over a year though.....

[Wanderer]

Agency are either blagging it or are too thick to realise. It could be either.

I'd say it's because they don't understand the law - they are confusing two different laws.

I'd tell them that I was happy to work outside the scope of the The Agency Workers Regulations 2010 (and thus have more IR35 friendly working conditions), but not willing to "opt out" of the The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses (Amendment) Regulations 2010 which have no bearing on IR35.

If you have already signed an opt out of the agency conduct regulations then you must withdraw the opt out before you start working for the client.

[bless 'em all]

Please reply to all address above, including this email, that your Limited Company are happy to Opt Out of the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment (EAA) Businesses Regulations 2003.

Under Regulation 14 of the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003, agencies are required to obtain agreement of terms with work seekers before providing them work finding services.

We are also required by law to obtain proof that you are eligible to work in this country, and you are capable of the providing the services to our clients, we therefore require names of two referees.

Another pile of vacuous BS. I'm going to reply with the text in the previous post.

[bless 'em all]

opt’ing in will place you within IR35, as it puts you under the “control” of the client and not independent as you are through your limited company.

Taken from an email from a well-known agency just today.

some of our clients will not accept “opted in” consultants due to any perceived employment status

From the same email.

Added to a 'we can't work with you if you don't opt' out phone call.

[blinko]

Taken from an email from a well-known agency just today.



From the same email.

Added to a 'we can't work with you if you don't opt' out phone call.

sheesh I don't know that much, BUT what I do know from working for a recruitment agency for 4 years is that the client doesn't give a damn wether you opt in or out or IR35.

They pay the day rate and that's the only cost to them.

I wouldn't sign out if I were you, I signed an opt out agreement purely because it was put in front of me and I had no idea what I was signing. I am now stuck with a weeks wage owed.

I spoke to a very helpful Roger at Contract lawyer (UK) Roger Sinclair Egos Ltd who was unfortunately out of my budget, but I am certain he would have been able to recover my lost week should I have paid him.

Now I am in a position where I have no idea how I am going to get paid, the client (not the agency) are a total disaster and the only advice I have is that I have to go to small claims court on my jones ! lovely!

BUT if i had opt'd in, I would be in a much stronger position to recover the funds we live and learn. I just hope that this lesson doesn't cost me a weeks wage !!

[Wanderer]

some of our clients will not accept “opted in” consultants due to any perceived employment status

Generally this will be due to the client's ignorance or misunderstanding of the law or confusion about different pieces of legislation. Agencies have their axe to grind so they are happy to let the client think that opt out is best.

The fact is that the agency regulations protect both the worker and the client. The only party to suffer from the agency conduct regulations is the agency...

[Bromham Boy]

Hello everyone from not so sunny Dortmund,

I've just joined this excellent forum, and this thread in particular, as a result of the 'opt out' issues I am having with my agency.

Being a bit of a skeptic, I intentionally 'forgot' to sign the opt out declaration that my agency sent me. However, I have signed a contract with the agency entitled 'Agreement with Limited Company Contractor who has opted out of the 2003 Regulations' in which a clause states,

The Projects shall be undertaken by any of the Contractor’s workers (“Worker(s)”) as the Contractor may consider appropriate. The Contractor shall ensure that any person to whom the performance of the Projects has been assigned or sub-contracted has opted out of the Conduct Regulations 2003.

I am now into my second week working for the end client and the agency is chasing me for the signed declaration, talking about the 'serious ramifications' if I don't sign and saying they cannot do a contract with a ltd company that has not opted out. They do, of course, have the right to instantly terminate the contract.

Presumably, if I sign the declaration with today's date, then it would quite clearly have no legal effect whatsoever. Furthermore, irrespective of the date on such a declaration, the agency could not demonstrate that they received the declaration prior to my introduction to the end client anyway.

If I simply play along with the agency to put an end to the pestering phone calls and emails, would I still defacto be opted in?