Contracting in Switzerland - Let the Naive Beware!

[MarillionFan]

The analogy is flawed because builders don't have to go through agencies appointed by their clients. Agencies that often create a great deal of unnecessary inconvenience to the service suppliers.

Mr. Smith, I think you did the right thing by writing to the client to explain. If I were a business trying to attract foreign talent, and a qualified person came to my interview, seemed good, but pulled out at the last minute, I would definitely be curious as to why. Then I would reconsider my hiring processes. For instance, I might not want to deal with that type of agency at all in the future.

The analogy may be flawed in that case, but the truth is the OP is looking to blame everyone else but himself, and by his posting style indicates he would most likely be insufferable to work with anyway.

Link to other site - http://www.englishforum.ch/employmen...ml#post1196058

I can see at least one other CUKKER in that thread.

[darrenb]

The analogy may be flawed in that case, but the truth is the OP is looking to blame everyone else but himself, and by his posting style indicates he would most likely be insufferable to work with anyway.

That's a bit of a leap.

[NotAllThere]

1.The higher tax (due to not being able to use my own company as in the past without a deposit of 10,000CHF, which I am not prepared to do)

You have to work through a payroll company. I've never heard of being able to use your own company by paying a deposit of 10K. (It could be the bodyshopping rule - but I understood that to be 50K, and you could simply buy an insurance bond to cover it).

2.The compulsory insurances deducted from salary which the UK tax man doesn’t recognise as being eligible towards UK tax

That'll be health. On the plus side, you won't be paying any NI to the UK government, and the cost of Swiss NI + health is considerably less than NI deductions. Of course, as a ltdco in the UK, you avoid NI already, so you're caught by 1 again.

3.The high cost of accommodation and living expenses

Multiply your cost of living by about 0.3 to get a comparable Swiss cost.

4.The risk of being charged an additional 15% UK tax (on top of the Swiss 25% rate) if I return to the UK in less than“six months and 1 day”

Not a risk, a fact of dual tax agreements.

5.Terms and conditions which could mean that if I am “let go” within 20 working days I will not be paid for those days

Nothing to do with Switzerland. Just contract negotiation. Certainly it is not a standard clause.

6.The high probability that the exchange rate will deteriorate when UK base rates rise in September (as hinted at by the Bank of England), thus making it harder to cover my UK commitments.

Impossible to protect yourself against. You could insist on a CHF rate. But then if interest rates went the other way you'd be hit. Nothing to do with Switzerland, specifically.

... On the one hand you whinge about the "long, rambling reply" (which by the way was precised by two family friends on my behalf - if you think that was long and rambling you should have seen my original draft ) on the other you want me to add a whole bunch of "helpful" information about accommodation. Now I'm the one who's confused.

It was long and rambling. When you write a letter of this type, you have to decide what you want to achieve and then construct the letter accordingly. There's far too much detail, and much inaccuracy. You say you want to help them correct the information, but it just comes across as a whinge. Having read it through twice - once here and once on the EF - I'm still can't see why you have a grievance. You got the information, and decided the country wasn't for you. And what is all that about the guy moving his family out so you could have serviced accomodation? That's weird.

...
I can see at least one other CUKKER in that thread.

At least two...

btw, if you think EF were being nice, I can only assume we were having an off-day.

[SueEllen]

I did my research. Research (in my case) proved expensive. I posted here to help others avoid that expensive research. I'm not sure your post adds anything of value to the conversation without giving any specifics.

Well it's obvious you did your research the wrong way.

You are suppose to research the legal way of working in countries and the living cost before even put yourself forward for a contract letalone being interviewed by the end-client.

I always state to agents who give me offers about countries I don't know the legalities of working in that until I've looked at the costs of providing services, I can't give them a definitive answer.

I then come on here and use the search box. If the answer isn't from a regular poster who has worked in the country in the past 2 years I also google the country and tax laws plus and look at information for self-employed people. ( Some countries' taxation ministeries are kind enough to put their tax laws in English. ) I then give the agent the "Yes" to put me forward, ask for an increased rate or a simple "No".

Coming on here to say you have written a long winded email to a client who has invested time in interviewing you etc. shows you off in a bad light. However one thing the client will be pleased about now is that they didn't take on such an ill-prepared person.

[SueEllen]

The analogy is flawed because builders don't have to go through agencies appointed by their clients. Agencies that often create a great deal of unnecessary inconvenience to the service suppliers.

Mr. Smith, I think you did the right thing by writing to the client to explain. If I were a business trying to attract foreign talent, and a qualified person came to my interview, seemed good, but pulled out at the last minute, I would definitely be curious as to why. Then I would reconsider my hiring processes. For instance, I might not want to deal with that type of agency at all in the future.

Actually it shows how bad the client is as well as the agent.

The clients I've worked for in the UK and abroad have always been aware about the difficulties of living and working in foreign countries, particulary if they want people for the long term.

[NotAllThere]

It is certainly true that Swiss companies and agencies often have no idea of how different things are in the UK. It'd be almost the same if a Swissy came to the UK to work - but the UK contract market is more mature.

[IanSmithUK]

The analogy may be flawed in that case, but the truth is the OP is looking to blame everyone else but himself, and by his posting style indicates he would most likely be insufferable to work with anyway.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Showed this thread to friends last night, asking "Is it just me? Am I the one in the wrong here?" to which I got the admonishment "Ian. Why on earth are you wating your time arguing with someone who is clearly a total jerk? You have more important things to do with your time"

Or as another friend put it "If I wanted to hear from an asshole I'd fart"

He has a point. Time to move on. Bye.

[IanSmithUK]

Well it's obvious you did your research the wrong way.

You are suppose to research the legal way of working in countries and the living cost before even put yourself forward for a contract letalone being interviewed by the end-client.

I always state to agents who give me offers about countries I don't know the legalities of working in that until I've looked at the costs of providing services, I can't give them a definitive answer.

I then come on here and use the search box. If the answer isn't from a regular poster who has worked in the country in the past 2 years I also google the country and tax laws plus and look at information for self-employed people. ( Some countries' taxation ministeries are kind enough to put their tax laws in English. ) I then give the agent the "Yes" to put me forward, ask for an increased rate or a simple "No".

Coming on here to say you have written a long winded email to a client who has invested time in interviewing you etc. shows you off in a bad light. However one thing the client will be pleased about now is that they didn't take on such an ill-prepared person.

Your points may be valid. However the ONLY reason I "came on here" was because someone on the Swiss English forum (who are either far more cogniscent with the facts because they're living and working there, or are in a similar position, trying to work out if it's worth their while) suggested that the post might be more "useful" to people here than to people in the Swiss English forums.

I do think it's interesting that the response there has been much more along the line of "Thanks" and "This is a good post" where here it has only resulted in one person being a total jerk, and a couple of others saying they do things much better. Good for you. For those who are less than perfect the thread will hopefully point out what not to do, which was my intention in posting it.

[MarillionFan]

I do think it's interesting that the response there has been much more along the line of "Thanks" and "This is a good post" where here it has only resulted in one person being a total jerk, and a couple of others saying they do things much better. Good for you. For those who are less than perfect the thread will hopefully point out what not to do, which was my intention in posting it.

You have completely misunderstood the difference between posting on an IT Contractor forum and an ex-pat forum. On EF your post will be better received due to the nature of the posters and their similar country experiences. There will be some contractors, but not the audience here. On here, we are your competitors not your peers. This site is primarily for IT Contractors operating as businesses offering their services to end clients. On that basis we see ourselves as businesses not individuals & so I have picked up on your prima donna attitude and inability to research a situation and even structure an email. Your issues about not researching accomodation, taxes & other problems you have with Switzerland are going to meaningless to this audience. Your friends of course are bound to agree with you, they're probably frightened to disagree with you lest you throw your toys out of the pram.

All of the posters in this thread have primarily disagreed with you all stating that you did not research properly. I think NAT had done a fantastic post on both sites to cover the Swiss angle. From a contracting perspective though, I'll give you this advice, take some responsibility and grow some balls, you'll need it in this industry. If you want people to agree with you, stick with your mates.

[russell]

I thought your post was interesting and helpful, not sure why MF is ranting at you.