The Next Agent That Asks Me .......

[dack]

Just like any other industry, there are some cowboys around. For best part of 2 years, my agency played every trick in the book when it came to delaying payments before finally going bust (http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...gone-bust.html) owing me and 9+ other contractors a tidy sum.

All part of the game .......

[billybiro]

Although like every other contractor I want to get the best possible rate but have to accept that the agent is doing the sales work for me (which having worked in a sales department I can safely say never again) and as such deserves some recompense for the work that I don't want to do myself.

Errr... Does the Agent do the interview with the client on your behalf?

Does the agent take your CV along and really sell your skills and experience to the client's interviewer in order to secure that contract for you and only you whilst you sit on your backside at home?

No. Obviously not.

Then they are NOT doing the "sales work" for you at all.

[SueEllen]

Just like any other industry, there are some cowboys around. For best part of 2 years, my agency played every trick in the book when it came to delaying payments before finally going bust (http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...gone-bust.html) owing me and 9+ other contractors a tidy sum.

All part of the game .......

I've learnt the hard way if a client or agency plays around with a payment, to talk to them and if no payment appears the next day to send an email asking for the payment and stating that no work will be done until the payment is made.

Interestingly so far all the clients and agencies I have had with clearly defined dispute clauses haven't screwed around with payments.......

[The Agents View]

Errr... Does the Agent do the interview with the client on your behalf?

Does the agent take your CV along and really sell your skills and experience to the client's interviewer in order to secure that contract for you and only you whilst you sit on your backside at home?

No. Obviously not.

Then they are NOT doing the "sales work" for you at all.

Can you get to the client? - I doubt it
Would you know there was a role? - I doubt it
Would you even have a chance without the agent? - I doubt it
Do you have the in-depth knowledge of who is doing what, which any agent SHOULD have?(they don't always) - I doubt it.
Would a client even speak to you to allow you to take the chance to pitch ?- Absolutely not - they struggle with speaking to people who can offer multiple options, let alone a tin pot contractor who calls out of the blue.

So actually, we've done ALL the groundwork, the knowledge gathering, the intelligence, the cold calling, the agreeing of terms, AND have tracked you down in order to match you to the opportunity - you just turn up, have a quick chat, and expect to take 80% of the rate I get paid by the client for it......

Please get back in your box, and realise that contracts don't just materialise out of thin air. Even with an established client, you can guarantee that hundreds of hours have gone into building the "right to deal". It all costs money - so yes, we do have to charge THE CLIENT for it (remember, it costs you NOTHING). Could value GET any better to a contractor?

[DodgyAgent]

Can you get to the client? - I doubt it
Would you know there was a role? - I doubt it
Would you even have a chance without the agent? - I doubt it
Do you have the in-depth knowledge of who is doing what, which any agent SHOULD have?(they don't always) - I doubt it.
Would a client even speak to you to allow you to take the chance to pitch ?- Absolutely not - they struggle with speaking to people who can offer multiple options, let alone a tin pot contractor who calls out of the blue.

So actually, we've done ALL the groundwork, the knowledge gathering, the intelligence, the cold calling, the agreeing of terms, AND have tracked you down in order to match you to the opportunity - you just turn up, have a quick chat, and expect to take 80% of the rate I get paid by the client for it......

Please get back in your box, and realise that contracts don't just materialise out of thin air. Even with an established client, you can guarantee that hundreds of hours have gone into building the "right to deal". It all costs money - so yes, we do have to charge THE CLIENT for it (remember, it costs you NOTHING). Could value GET any better to a contractor?

So if it is such acceptable behaviour to obtain leads then why hide the whole process behind a series of lies and misleading requests?I really dont understand it unless the perpetrators know that what they are doing is dishonest. mkaybe they should do what I do and just ask for the information saying that I am doing it because I want to place contractors and make money and by the way there is a drink in it for you. That way they can decide for themselves whether they want to give this information and under what terms.

You really do not have the emotional intelligence to understand how human relationships work do you? you do not for example understand the emotional effect lying to people has in order to get information out of them. nor do you understand that the way to influence people is to firstly give them something (respect-calling them back, giving feedback, information, comments about CVs, a lead into a job that you cannot make a fee from-there are many ways). then maybe you can ask for some information inreturn which they may well happily give you.

you have no right to say that people/contractors should just give up information to any tw*t of a recruitment consultant just in order to make the industry go round.

There is a book called 7 habits of highly successful (steven Covey) people which talks extensively about wielding influence. assuming you can read I suggest you buy it.

[Moscow Mule]

Can you get to the client? - I doubt it
Would you know there was a role? - I doubt it
Would you even have a chance without the agent? - I doubt it
Do you have the in-depth knowledge of who is doing what, which any agent SHOULD have?(they don't always) - I doubt it.
Would a client even speak to you to allow you to take the chance to pitch ?- Absolutely not - they struggle with speaking to people who can offer multiple options, let alone a tin pot contractor who calls out of the blue.

So actually, we've done ALL the groundwork, the knowledge gathering, the intelligence, the cold calling, the agreeing of terms, AND have tracked you down in order to match you to the opportunity - you just turn up, have a quick chat, and expect to take 80% of the rate I get paid by the client for it......

Please get back in your box, and realise that contracts don't just materialise out of thin air. Even with an established client, you can guarantee that hundreds of hours have gone into building the "right to deal". It all costs money - so yes, we do have to charge THE CLIENT for it (remember, it costs you NOTHING). Could value GET any better to a contractor?

Get off your horse mate, it's time for your milk.

The best advice I can give any contractor is to build your network. Never burn your bridges and always act professionally.

I haven't had to deal with an agent to get a job for the last 5 years (I've only been contracting 9 years).

[ShandyDrinker]

Errr... Does the Agent do the interview with the client on your behalf?

Does the agent take your CV along and really sell your skills and experience to the client's interviewer in order to secure that contract for you and only you whilst you sit on your backside at home?

No. Obviously not.

Then they are NOT doing the "sales work" for you at all.

OK, I agree that they are not doing all of the sales work for me but what they are doing is what I believe is the crappy part of the process by either utilising established relationships to generate business/contracts (granted, there has to be a business need requiring a contractor in the first place), cold calling or extracting information out of their existing (or new) contractor base to generate new leads.

I accept that we're the ones who then have to also perform our part in the interview and subsequently have the potential to get shafted by the agent who has put another candidate forward who was equally well liked by the client but is prepared to work cheaper than you or I so will probably be pushed for by the agent as they will make a bigger margin - that's part of the contracting game I really do dislike.

Can you get to the client? - I doubt it
Would you know there was a role? - I doubt it
Would you even have a chance without the agent? - I doubt it
Do you have the in-depth knowledge of who is doing what, which any agent SHOULD have?(they don't always) - I doubt it.
Would a client even speak to you to allow you to take the chance to pitch ?- Absolutely not - they struggle with speaking to people who can offer multiple options, let alone a tin pot contractor who calls out of the blue.

So actually, we've done ALL the groundwork, the knowledge gathering, the intelligence, the cold calling, the agreeing of terms, AND have tracked you down in order to match you to the opportunity - you just turn up, have a quick chat, and expect to take 80% of the rate I get paid by the client for it......

Please get back in your box, and realise that contracts don't just materialise out of thin air. Even with an established client, you can guarantee that hundreds of hours have gone into building the "right to deal". It all costs money - so yes, we do have to charge THE CLIENT for it (remember, it costs you NOTHING). Could value GET any better to a contractor?

Although I agree with some of what you say here I think your turn of phrase is exactly why some contractors really dislike agents! However, although you (the agent) may have spent a significant number of hours securing the role, we don't just "turn up" and expect to take 80% of the rate you get paid. I know I certainly work bloody hard for the 3/6/12 month contract so the proportion of time we spend performing on the contract actually makes the amount of time you (the agent) spends securing the contract in the first place somewhat insignificant. Say you spend 50 hours securing a 6 month contract (being approximately 26 weeks, 8 hours per day, 5 days per week), that is less than 5% of the time I will take doing the work.

So if it is such acceptable behaviour to obtain leads then why hide the whole process behind a series of lies and misleading requests?I really dont understand it unless the perpetrators know that what they are doing is dishonest. mkaybe they should do what I do and just ask for the information saying that I am doing it because I want to place contractors and make money and by the way there is a drink in it for you. That way they can decide for themselves whether they want to give this information and under what terms.

You really do not have the emotional intelligence to understand how human relationships work do you? you do not for example understand the emotional effect lying to people has in order to get information out of them. nor do you understand that the way to influence people is to firstly give them something (respect-calling them back, giving feedback, information, comments about CVs, a lead into a job that you cannot make a fee from-there are many ways). then maybe you can ask for some information inreturn which they may well happily give you.

you have no right to say that people/contractors should just give up information to any tw*t of a recruitment consultant just in order to make the industry go round.

There is a book called 7 habits of highly successful (steven Covey) people which talks extensively about wielding influence. assuming you can read I suggest you buy it.

You are spot on regarding the relationship building aspect... I know I'm more likely to pass on leads to agents I've got/had a good working relationship than some tw*t who phones out of the blue.

The bottom line is that contractors need agents and vice versa unless a contractor really is fortunate enough to be able to go direct... as a result any one party who thinks they're vastly more important than the other is full of sh*t...

I think I've been lucky so far in my contracting career as I've primarily got contracts through existing contacts and have only used 2 recruitment agencies so far... perhaps I'm not as jaded by agents as some people!

[SueEllen]

Can you get to the client? - I doubt it
Would you know there was a role? - I doubt it
Would you even have a chance without the agent? - I doubt it
Do you have the in-depth knowledge of who is doing what, which any agent SHOULD have?(they don't always) - I doubt it.
Would a client even speak to you to allow you to take the chance to pitch ?- Absolutely not - they struggle with speaking to people who can offer multiple options, let alone a tin pot contractor who calls out of the blue.

So actually, we've done ALL the groundwork, the knowledge gathering, the intelligence, the cold calling, the agreeing of terms, AND have tracked you down in order to match you to the opportunity - you just turn up, have a quick chat, and expect to take 80% of the rate I get paid by the client for it......

The mistake your making is thinking that all clients require the use of agents to hire contractors - they don't.

Some are happy and able to do the entire process themselves.....

Others don't want to for various reasons. So even if the contractor finds the role themselves with the client, they have no choice but to have an agent in the middle.

Oh and I'm quite happy to give useful leads to people who treat me decently and that includes not lying.

[The Agents View]

So if it is such acceptable behaviour to obtain leads then why hide the whole process behind a series of lies and misleading requests?I really dont understand it unless the perpetrators know that what they are doing is dishonest. mkaybe they should do what I do and just ask for the information saying that I am doing it because I want to place contractors and make money and by the way there is a drink in it for you. That way they can decide for themselves whether they want to give this information and under what terms.

You really do not have the emotional intelligence to understand how human relationships work do you? you do not for example understand the emotional effect lying to people has in order to get information out of them. nor do you understand that the way to influence people is to firstly give them something (respect-calling them back, giving feedback, information, comments about CVs, a lead into a job that you cannot make a fee from-there are many ways). then maybe you can ask for some information inreturn which they may well happily give you.

you have no right to say that people/contractors should just give up information to any tw*t of a recruitment consultant just in order to make the industry go round.

There is a book called 7 habits of highly successful (steven Covey) people which talks extensively about wielding influence. assuming you can read I suggest you buy it.

Firstly, allow me to point out, that my response was made, tongue in cheek, to put the direct opposite view on the person who implied that agents do nothing for thier money.

DA: I can confidently say, that I have never lied to a contractor. I have never lied to a client. I couldn't even be said to have been economical with the truth to them. I am quite structured in my approach. I will NEVER fish for leads with someone I've never spoken to before, and when I do need leads, I am 100% honest about it - this usually comes in the form of people who I have placed, helping me by letting me know who the movers and shakers are.

For your information, I have a degree in human psychology, and am considered an industry expert in neurolinguistic influence, including both emotional intelligence, and body language. You will also notice that my previous post states that every relationship in this environment should be quid pro quo.

I do however maintain, that there is too much of a negative feeling towards Recruitment Consultants building their knowledge and influence in the market place, by extracting information from their relationships. Unfortunately this taints those of us who use up-front, honest methods, with established relationships to collect this information, and puts us all into the same bracket as the cowboys who pull the usual stunts.

Unfortunately, success in this industry is measured in billings, not in the amount of information you can gently extract - and whilst I believe that long term, the strategy of both DA and I, of being up-front and honest is the right way to go, unfortunately, it doesn't yield the instant results which the underhand methods can. Recruitment is my career, and I take it very seriously - however the attrition rate of the industry, means that many people come in, shake the tree, run through relationships like I go through pants, and then move on to another sector - Leaving specialists stereotyped (long term, the underhand methods will bite you in the rear).

Lesson in morals and long term recruitment career planning complete

[DodgyAgent]

.

DA: I can confidently say, that I have never lied to a contractor. I have never lied to a client. I couldn't even be said to have been economical with the truth to them.

Liar