How can I figure out how much clientco pay the agency for me?

[7of9]

I am in the process of negotiate the rate for an extended contract. My clientco cant tell me how much they pay for the agency for me as its in the agreement of the contracts.

When I ask the agency, they told me that they cannot tell me neither. So how am I going to know the margin?

I have already ask the agency for the pay rise and the agent said he will try his best to get it from my client for me.

But my feeling is that my clientco has already pay big money to them. 
I am really bad at negotiation rates

[7of9]

My friends normally figure that out by asking their client...

[TheFaQQer]

If no-one will tell you, then you're not going to find out.

Most decent agencies should have no qualms about telling you what their rate is - the fact that they keep it secret and contract the client to keeping it secret as well implies that they are taking a lot of money.

All you can do is to ask for more money - then if they won't pay it, you can argue that if you knew what the margin was, you'd be in a better position.

At the end of the day, you need to determine what you want to be paid and stick to it (or close to it).

[7of9]

If no-one will tell you, then you're not going to find out.

Most decent agencies should have no qualms about telling you what their rate is - the fact that they keep it secret and contract the client to keeping it secret as well implies that they are taking a lot of money.

All you can do is to ask for more money - then if they won't pay it, you can argue that if you knew what the margin was, you'd be in a better position.

At the end of the day, you need to determine what you want to be paid and stick to it (or close to it).

Thanks TheFaQQer

[ThomasSoerensen]

I am in the process of negotiate the rate for an extended contract. My clientco cant tell me how much they pay for the agency for me as its in the agreement of the contracts.

When I ask the agency, they told me that they cannot tell me neither. So how am I going to know the margin?

I have already ask the agency for the pay rise and the agent said he will try his best to get it from my client for me.

But my feeling is that my clientco has already pay big money to them. 
I am really bad at negotiation rates

Find the purchase order in their Accounts Payable system.

[northernladuk]

or hang around the printers long enough. It's how I found my details out.

Sometimes though ignorance can be bliss. When you find out the agent has a 30-40% margin you will be spitting blood and could potentially rock a nice boat you were happy to be on before

[TykeMerc]

As a PM I'm responsible for the budgets so I get to see enough of what's being charged for my time to work it out even though the agents don't realise that.

Back in my engineering days I would usually find out or just outright ask.

[xchaotic]

or hang around the printers long enough. It's how I found my details out.

Sometimes though ignorance can be bliss. When you find out the agent has a 30-40% margin you will be spitting blood and could potentially rock a nice boat you were happy to be on before

That +1 - I got really angry finding out the agent got as much as they did, I asked for an increase, the agent wouldn't budge as they were on PSL, I went elsewhere.
I am on a very similar rate now getting 100% with no middle men, whereas before I would be getting the same and the agent getting their share.
I also tend to agree that agents being what they are, may still have some value by increasing the perceived value of me as a contractor.
All my contractor friends who went directly with the client, never charge the same rate as the agency would.
I think it's because they're good a software development but not so much with rate negotiations.
The net result is it's hard to sell yourself at £500pd if they all agreed for less. Had they gone via agency, I'd have a much easier job getting the rate that I want.

[7of9]

hi all, thanks for all the help. I have used the tricks you guys mentioned Found out the agency takes 24% of what I earn. I am really pissed off! I did a bit research. The margin is supposed to be 8%-15%!!!!! Shall I negociate it to 10% or 13% when its time to extend my contract, which is soon.

[stacks]

at my last place I searched for my name on the companies intranet and came across an unlocked spreadsheet with every contractors rate!

At the time I was on £375 a day and being charged at £525 so I nice little earner for the agent. I asked for a £60 a day rate rise at renewal and they initially tried to pass all of that on the the client who came directly to me and said no. The agent themselves eventually conceded a further £25 from their margin which was more or less what I was thinking I'd end up with anyway.