Opting in\out

[LOSTINPRADISE]

Hi all

Does anyone know what this means? I was sent this by a recruitment agency after filling out a questionnaire in response to a job they are putting me forward for.

"Further to our telephone conversation, you gave notice for yourself and on behalf of your limited company (if applicable) that you do not wish the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 to apply to any engagements through XXXXX. If this is still the case, please reply to this email with "Confirm".

Is this a wise thing to do? I was advised that many contractors OPT out. Just wanted your take on this, as i am new to the contracting world.

[malvolio]

Can't be arsed to type it all out yet again... Have a read through here for the potted guide, then go look it up properly
http://forums.contractoruk.com/threa...ency+regs.html

then wait for Mailman to come in and give you the wrong advice...


Also, think on - if you don't know about the regs (which are important), what else don't you know?

[errorista]

is XXXXX a recruitment agency?

listed as such in companies house?

always do some basic checks

type the name here

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk

'a job they are putting me forward for'

sounds early days to put down concrete

you should know at this time if and who they are putting you fwd to and what rate your are interviewing for

at the very least you should have a full job specification before you at this time.

hope this is helpful

erro

[LOSTINPRADISE]

Hi

I wasnt sure if i could write the agency name but its Harvey Nash.

I have received a job spec, the company and the rate i will be interviewing for.

Thanx for the link to previous threads.

ive also received these links which i need to read too.

http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...3/20033319.htm
http://www.pcg.org.uk/resources/agencyregs.html
http://www.shout99.com/contractors/s...e.pl?id=25151&

[Denny]

Hi all

Does anyone know what this means? I was sent this by a recruitment agency after filling out a questionnaire in response to a job they are putting me forward for.

"Further to our telephone conversation, you gave notice for yourself and on behalf of your limited company (if applicable) that you do not wish the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 to apply to any engagements through XXXXX. If this is still the case, please reply to this email with "Confirm".

Is this a wise thing to do? I was advised that many contractors OPT out. Just wanted your take on this, as i am new to the contracting world.

I would opt in, if you are going with Harvey Nash. I made the fatal mistake of opting out a couple of years ago and ended up getting screwed by them to the tune of 8K. There is no course for redress from the DTI or contract law if you opt out but there is if you opt in.

Unless you are exempt from IR35 according to the criteria laid down by IR (don't just rely on contract wording or 'friendliness' criteria) then there is little reason to opt out. In my case, I was given an IR35 friendly contract, or so I was told, but still ended up being micromanaged on site, using the company equipment, the canteen etc. Did that help HN fight my corner? No. They are ruthless 'barrow boys' and I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

[malvolio]

No redress? Crap. If there is a contract there is always potential for redress. Opting in or out would make no difference, you just have to work a bit harder to get it.

[malvolio]

Hi

I wasnt sure if i could write the agency name but its Harvey Nash.

I have received a job spec, the company and the rate i will be interviewing for.

Thanx for the link to previous threads.

ive also received these links which i need to read too.

http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...3/20033319.htm
http://www.pcg.org.uk/resources/agencyregs.html
http://www.shout99.com/contractors/s...e.pl?id=25151&

Have fun - but be aware the HMG one is a nightmare to read (although it's all there) and the PCG one is members only - but join them anyway, you'll learn a huge amount from them and get all the tax insurances for just over £200.

Also be aware that HN will treat you as an employee of theirs anyway, which is less than ideal. If you do opt out, do not use their letter, write your own or use the PCG one. However, just this once and given you will not know enough to play HN at their own game, I suggest you opt in and get the protections at the expense of your IR35 status.

And if that's all double-dutch, read the PCG's first timers guide, which is not a member-only thing - in fact, read it anyway.

[Mindomoo]

disagree

There is no course for redress from the DTI or contract law if you opt out but there is if you opt in.

No, you have what is in your contract with the agency which is a legal document that can be pursued through the court system.

Ok, pain in the ass, but there is redress (as I have just discovered).

And as for opting out or in making no difference.

Hmmmm, certainly in the area I work in, I suspect opt out = CV on bottom of pile if it is forwarded to the client at all! Probably illegal but you try proving it. Also, I'm big enough and ugly enough to fight my own corner and dont need a nanny (aka the agency regs) looking after me.

[IT contract agent]

In my case, I was given an IR35 friendly contract, or so I was told, but still ended up being micromanaged on site, using the company equipment, the canteen etc. Did that help HN fight my corner? No. They are ruthless 'barrow boys' and I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole.

Contracts can be IR35 friendly and you can still get screwed by the IR. Its IR35 friendly not bullet proof.....and because you opted out did you not expect to have a line manager or eat on site????

[malvolio]

Do you do this for a living or are merely helping out your mates?

The contract is supposed to represent reality, something the agency people tend to forget at times. If it doesn't and you are challenged, then the contract will be disregarded as a sham. However, getting the contract to look like reality is still a clear objective, and it's a still a 1000-to-1 bet that a good contract will get you out of IR35, if properly represented.

Secondly, an opted-in contract and an opted-out contract should contain mutually exclusive clauses on payment terms, notice periods and handcuff, something else the agencts tend to ignore in the interests of an easy life

And of course, you tend to offer any old rubbish to the contractor whether or not it aligns to what you have sold to the client. A certain Mr Hood lost £45k back taxes thanks to that habit.

So don't lecture contractors on contracts (at least, not those who know what they're doing) until you both understand them and start to offer real ones.