Family business tax back on the agenda.

[malvolio]

No. That's my point!

There will be some watering down of IR35 or at least an effort to make it more 'transparent.' It wont make us better off. And, they'll push through a revised S660 which would gather far more money than IR35 ever did!

If they want money, S660 is a very weak way to get it. For example, it would only apply to married couples. For another it would only ever raise about £200m, which is trivial in real terms There are far better ways of raising tax income, such as getting corporations to pay UK tax on UK earnings (that's around £280bn lost taxes,incidentally) or simply stopping the tax relief that non-EU nationals coming in on ICTs and Tier2 visas get for their first 52 weeks

The problem with IR35 is that the need to prevent disguised employment has acquired its own momentum and no government can or will reverse such a basic concept. The trick is to get a way to focus it on where it needs to be focussed and leave the rest of us alone.

Or we can have hysterics about something that is probably never going to fly.

[SorenLorensen]

If they want money, S660 is a very weak way to get it. For example, it would only apply to married couples. For another it would only ever raise about £200m, which is trivial in real terms There are far better ways of raising tax income, such as getting corporations to pay UK tax on UK earnings (that's around £280bn lost taxes,incidentally) or simply stopping the tax relief that non-EU nationals coming in on ICTs and Tier2 visas get for their first 52 weeks

No argument with that, far too sensible though, and really, politicians aren't going to enforce this since they're in the back pockets of the large corporations.

The problem with IR35 is that the need to prevent disguised employment has acquired its own momentum and no government can or will reverse such a basic concept. The trick is to get a way to focus it on where it needs to be focussed and leave the rest of us alone.

Or we can have hysterics about something that is probably never going to fly.

So what is the PCG stance on this now then, genuinely interested to know? What exactly are they pushing for?

[RichardCranium]

the tax relief that non-EU nationals coming in on ICTs and Tier2 visas get for their first 52 weeks.

They f***ing what???



Just what is the point of taking on a UK national as a contractor?

[Fred Bloggs]

Fred, did you really believe the 'it will all get better when the tories get in power' bulltulip spouted by many on here!?

They are going to screw us. They'll chuck us a mangey fix on IR35 but screw us with the re introduction of S660 legislation.

It seems to me that we now have all three major parties against people running their own lives and getting on with creating wealth. I'm bitterly disappointed, I hadn't voted for many years but this time I voted Tory mainly on the grounds that I "thought" they were broadly in favour of people runnnig their own lives and taking repsonsibility as far as possible. If this comes off it'll be the last time I vote and there'll be 000's more like me. The next UK government will be Labour again. Then it really will be time to turn the lights off and close up shop.

[BolshieBastard]

If they want money, S660 is a very weak way to get it. For example, it would only apply to married couples. For another it would only ever raise about £200m, which is trivial in real terms There are far better ways of raising tax income, such as getting corporations to pay UK tax on UK earnings (that's around £280bn lost taxes,incidentally) or simply stopping the tax relief that non-EU nationals coming in on ICTs and Tier2 visas get for their first 52 weeks

The problem with IR35 is that the need to prevent disguised employment has acquired its own momentum and no government can or will reverse such a basic concept. The trick is to get a way to focus it on where it needs to be focussed and leave the rest of us alone.

Or we can have hysterics about something that is probably never going to fly.

You are not thinking about this! You are correct as S660 stands now. However, with the current review of taxation, I would not for one minute think they'd just put S660 back on the books without some re work.

HMRC recent won a judgement on S660 recently (if you read the torygraph article). HMRC's line appears to be the income split money was being paid into a joint account. It doesnt take much of a leap of imagination to see S660 could be expanded to include not just married couples but also co habiting couples, hetro or homo whether the money was paid into joint or separate accounts.

They'd get far more money from this than via a re worked IR35.

But if you feel this is just 'hysterics about something that isnt going to fly' be my guest.

EDIT; I agree making UK companies pay more tax would bring in huge amounts of money. But, that is never going to happen since those companies will just threaten to re locate outside of the UK.

Individuals can do this too, ofcourse, but then again, the number are far smaller so the impact is substantially less.

[malvolio]

So what is the PCG stance on this now then, genuinely interested to know? What exactly are they pushing for?

Well they have a seat at the table of the OTS, so will have a major say in how things are taken forward. Too early to say what that may be, of course, but I don't imagine for a moment that they won't be fighting for the best possible deal for genuine contractors. I'd be surprised if it was much different to what I said above, but I could be wrong (Who me? Surely not... )

Same thing works for S660 or any variation on it. The principle that married couples can share in the proceeds of either one's business is well established and beyond attack. Any other proposed law to get around that would have a very tough time getting as far as a draft, much less being passed.

[BolshieBastard]

Same thing works for S660 or any variation on it. The principle that married couples can share in the proceeds of either one's business is well established and beyond attack. Any other proposed law to get around that would have a very tough time getting as far as a draft, much less being passed.

Oh dear! So you just ignored this bit then? "HM Revenue & Customs has repeatedly tried to prevent income splitting using legislation from 1936. The House of Lords rejected this approach in 2007 in a case involving a small IT firm called Arctic Systems.

The Revenue persisted, however, and in September successfully argued in court that a business had evaded tax because the couple drawing the dividends from their business paid the monies into a joint bank account. "

[SorenLorensen]

Well they have a seat at the table of the OTS, so will have a major say in how things are taken forward. Too early to say what that may be, of course, but I don't imagine for a moment that they won't be fighting for the best possible deal for genuine contractors. I'd be surprised if it was much different to what I said above, but I could be wrong (Who me? Surely not... )

Is it really too early to say? What are the PCG suggesting the replacement for IR35 actually is? And what is their definition of a genuine contractor? How many of the PCG paying members would be classed as genuine?

Same thing works for S660 or any variation on it. The principle that married couples can share in the proceeds of either one's business is well established and beyond attack. Any other proposed law to get around that would have a very tough time getting as far as a draft, much less being passed.

You're kidding surely? S660 has been getting attacked for years. Also, see Bolshies comments on this. This isn't going to be swept under the carpet.

[AnthonyQuinn]

No, it's nowhere as near as legit.

and why not? does the government need to tell businesses who can be paid what?

[phileds]

No, it's nowhere as near as legit.

ISAs are great if you have 6-10k a year you can salt away.

Median full time weekly earnings in "rich" London are £642/week (source - National Statistics Online - Earnings). That doesn't leave a whole lot to put by once tax and living expenses are thrown in.

I'd guess perhaps 5% of the population can take full benefit of the current ISA regime. Hardly equitable, is it? The rest of the scum might salt away 1 or 2k if they're lucky.