Frankfurt / Düsseldorf Rate

[pmeswani]

Hi all,

Couldn't find anything on here that answers my question. So hope it is ok to ask.

In the unlikely event that I land a role in either places in Germany, what would be considered as an average rate?

I am working on the assumption that the agent is going to pay me via a UK agency to my Ltd Company and I will be in either towns for less than 6 months. So I don't know what the tax implications will be (haven't researched this yet, but will do at some point).

Just want to get an idea of what the typical costs would be on a Weekly / Monthly basis based on anyones experience. (I'm hoping not to pay any Church Tax and plan to declare myself as non-religious).

Thanks in advance.

[chef]

If you can guarantee that you will not "set foot on German soil" (that's very different to working days) for more than 6 months of the year than you are not tax resident in Germany and can pay taxes as normally via your uk ltd. If you are in the country for 1 day longer than that 6 months then you are tax resident here and that's a whole different ball game and in that case:

- I wouldn't recommend working via your ltd as you'll end up paying lots more tax
- I would register as a freelancer / Freiberufler
- You will pay tax on your worldwide earnings for the Jan - Jan period (german tax year) or you submit a whole load of forms to both uk and german tax dept's to sort out the dual taxation mess
- church tax is simple, you tick the box when registering to say you are not religious
- health insurance is a legal requirement, get private insurance as it's far cheaper than the social health insurance for someone earning a contractors rate

accomodation comes under a few categories
- hotels are roughly the same as most uk cities in cost, dont expect an english breakfast
- apartment rentals come under 2 categories
a) furnished and let via an agency (relatively expensive but EVERYTHING including lcd tv, fridge, plates, saucepans etc. is included)
b) private rental where you can expect to have to purchase a complete new kitchen and possibly a new bathroom suite (germans usually move theres with them or if you're lucky will sell you the kitchen fromt he previous tenant as they plan to buy a new one in their new place) and the min term rental is usually 2 years+

give expattax a call for all accountancy related q's, english speaking, very helpful, highly recommended

Chef

[chef]

for an average rate it depends on your role, as a rough example I am earning what I was earning in the uk 4 years ago before any banking crisis etc. i.e during the "fill yer boots" period which is now approx double what I could earn in the uk doing the same role I have always been doing.

[BlasterBates]

Worth taking the advice on whether you can pay tax through your Ltd for up to 6 months.

Personal tax residency is not the same as whether a business is tax resident.

If a Finanzamt Beamte found out he may just say "your business was based in Germany for 5 months therefore for that period you should pay German tax on the profits of your business, and tax on the employee's salary", so be careful..however because you're not tax resident, they would limit any tax purely to the business, if longer than 6 months they'll tax everything including UK income, taking into account the double tax agreement.

Just be aware that the 6 month rule does not necessarily apply to a company, where the regulations are woolly. Of course if you only stay a few months you'll be under the radar anyway....but just be aware of the complexity.

It is actually often worth it to register yourself for a short-time because you will actually pay much less tax and the UK HMRC won't be able to tax it again.

I always tax myself where the contract is, which is safer, especially if you renew, because if you did they would certainly want the tax from day 1 not day 183.

[pmeswani]

for an average rate it depends on your role, as a rough example I am earning what I was earning in the uk 4 years ago before any banking crisis etc. i.e during the "fill yer boots" period which is now approx double what I could earn in the uk doing the same role I have always been doing.

Thanks for the info Chef. Much appreciated.

The chances are I would stay in Hotels rather than rented accomodation. The last time I went to Germany, I ate meat. However, nowe that I am a vegie, I would need to look at vegie friendly places. (This is all hypothetical). The work I may be doing is IT Security. The typical rates I tend to see is about the £350 per day mark. So I want to try and pitch at £450 to £500 p/d as a minimum. However, I don't know if this is unrealistic or not.

[pmeswani]

Worth taking the advice on whether you can pay tax through your Ltd for up to 6 months.

Personal tax residency is not the same as whether a business is tax resident.

If a Finanzamt Beamte found out he may just say "your business was based in Germany for 5 months therefore for that period you should pay German tax on the profits of your business, and tax on the employee's salary", so be careful..however because you're not tax resident, they would limit any tax purely to the business, if longer than 6 months they'll tax everything including UK income, taking into account the double tax agreement.

Just be aware that the 6 month rule does not necessarily apply to a company, where the regulations are woolly. Of course if you only stay a few months you'll be under the radar anyway....but just be aware of the complexity.

It is actually often worth it to register yourself for a short-time because you will actually pay much less tax and the UK HMRC won't be able to tax it again.

I always tax myself where the contract is, which is safer, especially if you renew, because if you did they would certainly want the tax from day 1 not day 183.

Thanks for the info BB. Nothing at the moment is guaranteed, but I will take your point (along with Chef's) on board. At the moment, I have little idea what rate is doable in Germany. So I am going to see if I can do £450 to £500 p/d.

[chef]

The last time I went to Germany, I ate meat. However, nowe that I am a vegie, I would need to look at vegie friendly places. (This is all hypothetical).

Finding a veggie friendly hotel will be nigh on impossible in sausage land, however Happy Cow Dusseldorf and Happy Cow
Frankfurt might help you along, my general impression is that Germany is 8-10 years behind the uk in terms of veggie friendliness.

As BB said, it's best to get your tax situation clearly sorted with a professional before you sign anything as the german HMRC equivalent are not to be messed with and very "german" in attitude i.e there are rulez and ve vill stick to them.. and you should always think long term i.e that your contract will last longer than the 6 months initally offered. I took that advice when I first started looking and registered freelance, over 2 years later I'm still here and no longer live in the Uk.

[pmeswani]

Finding a veggie friendly hotel will be nigh on impossible in sausage land, however Happy Cow Dusseldorf and Happy Cow
Frankfurt might help you along, my general impression is that Germany is 8-10 years behind the uk in terms of veggie friendliness.

Thanks for the links. Much appreciated.

As BB said, it's best to get your tax situation clearly sorted with a professional before you sign anything as the german HMRC equivalent are not to be messed with and very "german" in attitude i.e there are rulez and ve vill stick to them.. and you should always think long term i.e that your contract will last longer than the 6 months initally offered. I took that advice when I first started looking and registered freelance, over 2 years later I'm still here and no longer live in the Uk.

Point taken. Let's say that I did set aside the German tax part of the income, and I don't last 6 months and don't plan on working in Germany again. Is the tax reclaimable or is it deemed as non-refundable?

[chef]

Point taken. Let's say that I did set aside the German tax part of the income, and I don't last 6 months and don't plan on working in Germany again. Is the tax reclaimable or is it deemed as non-refundable?

I don't quite understand what you mean by "set aside", german taxes are paid 9-12 months after year end (i.e for work completed in 2010, it's due by Sept 2011, Dec 2011 if you submit via an accountant) so the only setting aside you'd have to do is speak to an accountant, get a good idea of what tax you would be looking at paying based on your rate and predicted earnings and then don't spend it.