State of the market

[swamp]

I spoke with one agent I trust last week about a role, he said he'd had over 650 applicants for it and the client was being very specific about candidates having very narrow industry sector experience despite there being no-one available on the market with that experience for quite a while. The client was apparently "desperate" and had upped the rate but still refused to consider anyone from outside of the narrow sector. I got a note this morning saying the client had cancelled the project due to not being able to find "skilled" contractors. The project was listed as an "datacentre PM" role in a fairly bland environment with nothing that indicated problems for non-sector PMs.

There is a lot of dross out there. It sounds like the client knows of no other way to find a decent candidate than to demand exact industry experience.

[nomadd]

It sounds like the client knows of no other way to find a decent candidate than to demand exact industry experience.

That's how it works in Investment Banking. Very, very buoyant at the moment. But most clients/pimps won't give you a second look if you aren't already in it.

[oliverson]

That's how it works in Investment Banking. Very, very buoyant at the moment. But most clients/pimps won't give you a second look if you aren't already in it.

I'm in a pretty good position to comment on this having been contracting for around 8 years with the last 3 years in investment banking/trading in London. Up until exactly 1 year ago every contract (and before that every other permie job) I've acquired has been the result of meeting one client and performing well in the interviews. I interview very well I'm told. My skillset is .NET. I've worked with the technology since beta at the start of the millenium. I have recent solid commercial experience in the very sought after WPF technology so if anybody is in a good position to land a contract I would say it's me.

So what happened 1 year ago? Well I've had THIRTY face-to-face interviews with a 6 month WPF contract in between. It sounds ridiculous I know but it's true. The problem is that whereas in the past you'd typically have a telephone interview to weed out the pretenders, followed by a face-to-face in order to probe a little deeper and determine general suitability, now it is a case of a telephone interview followed by anything from two to seven face-to-faces. Not only that but you are now subjected to the 'pair programming' test in which you have the added pressure of not only delivering upon a programming spec given to you but you have to constantly narrate what you are doing and why you are doing it. Some may argue but to me that isn't representative of what you do in 99% of day jobs so why subject somebody to that. Then the spec. isn't even reminiscent of the role your are being interviewed for. It's like they are trying over and over to find something where you didn't do particularly well and if they do it overshadows all the good you've done in getting to the final stages. Aha, we've found something he's not brilliant at! Pathetic.

Anyhow, the upshot of all this is whilst on my way to a final round interview (until the next round) (involving yet another 2 hour pair programming test followed by a further three interviewers) at a bank in Canary Wharf, crammed into London Bridge tube station with problems again on the Jubilee line I looked at my reflection in the glass screening the track and said aloud F**K THIS CR*P. I took the train back out of London got in my car and drove home, which is the North of England, worried about the bills, etc. Then the phone rang. It was an old line manager. Was I interested in writing some code for him just 20 mins from my home? Err, I'll think about it ;-) Just goes to show, the lord really does act in mysterious ways.


The feeling of relief I feel is immeasurable. It signals the end of a 3 year period of hell. I came to London chasing the big rates at the big banks and it's been nothing but an unmitigated disaster working with some real t0ssers and being interviewed by people I wouldn't p**s upon if they were on fire. I have a contracting friend who did exactly the same and despite being on even bigger money than I was on he is desperate to return home too. We had a plan when we came down here. It was called 'Operation Richard Gere'. The idea being that we'd be cash rich and oozing class at the Corney and Barrow's of this world. What we didn't realise is that we were living 'the dream' prior to our departure.

Enough of my rant. Lager for £ 2.60, Fish & Chips (with summat moist) for way under a fiver, best curries on this island, 50% house prices, better scenery, decent down to earth people, just a shame about the weather (and no I don't own whippets or pigeons!)

Long live the North!

[nomadd]

Well I've had THIRTY face-to-face interviews with a 6 month WPF contract in between. It sounds ridiculous I know but it's true. The problem is that whereas in the past you'd typically have a telephone interview to weed out the pretenders, followed by a face-to-face in order to probe a little deeper and determine general suitability, now it is a case of a telephone interview followed by anything from two to seven face-to-faces. Not only that but you are now subjected to the 'pair programming' test in which you have the added pressure of not only delivering upon a programming spec given to you but you have to constantly narrate what you are doing and why you are doing it. Some may argue but to me that isn't representative of what you do in 99% of day jobs so why subject somebody to that. Then the spec. isn't even reminiscent of the role your are being interviewed for. It's like they are trying over and over to find something where you didn't do particularly well and if they do it overshadows all the good you've done in getting to the final stages. Aha, we've found something he's not brilliant at! Pathetic.

My last 4 roles have all been Banking. First 2 were wrapped-up and offered over the telephone. Last two were the result of a single 45 minute interview. I point blank refuse to do any form of "test" or any more than "two interviews" (and even then I grumble...) I make sure the agents know this before they send off the cv. That's my approach (and no point debating the plus/minus points of it, as the last thread when we did just that quickly descended into a slanging match between all parties concerned. )

I'm in Java, not .Net. Not sure if that makes a difference. Whatever, go figure.

[oliverson]

My last 4 roles have all been Banking. First 2 were wrapped-up and offered over the telephone. Last two were the result of a single 45 minute interview. I point blank refuse to do any form of "test" or any more than "two interviews" (and even then I grumble...) I make sure the agents know this before they send off the cv. That's my approach (and no point debating the plus/minus points of it, as the last thread when we did just that quickly descended into a slanging match between all parties concerned. )

I'm in Java, not .Net. Not sure if that makes a difference. Whatever, go figure.

That's the point I'm making. It was the same for me too until one year ago.

[kandr]

I'm in a pretty good position to comment on this having been contracting for around 8 years with the last 3 years in investment banking/trading in London. Up until exactly 1 year ago every contract (and before that every other permie job) I've acquired has been the result of meeting one client and performing well in the interviews. I interview very well I'm told. My skillset is .NET. I've worked with the technology since beta at the start of the millenium. I have recent solid commercial experience in the very sought after WPF technology so if anybody is in a good position to land a contract I would say it's me.

So what happened 1 year ago? Well I've had THIRTY face-to-face interviews with a 6 month WPF contract in between. It sounds ridiculous I know but it's true. The problem is that whereas in the past you'd typically have a telephone interview to weed out the pretenders, followed by a face-to-face in order to probe a little deeper and determine general suitability, now it is a case of a telephone interview followed by anything from two to seven face-to-faces. Not only that but you are now subjected to the 'pair programming' test in which you have the added pressure of not only delivering upon a programming spec given to you but you have to constantly narrate what you are doing and why you are doing it. Some may argue but to me that isn't representative of what you do in 99% of day jobs so why subject somebody to that. Then the spec. isn't even reminiscent of the role your are being interviewed for. It's like they are trying over and over to find something where you didn't do particularly well and if they do it overshadows all the good you've done in getting to the final stages. Aha, we've found something he's not brilliant at! Pathetic.

Anyhow, the upshot of all this is whilst on my way to a final round interview (until the next round) (involving yet another 2 hour pair programming test followed by a further three interviewers) at a bank in Canary Wharf, crammed into London Bridge tube station with problems again on the Jubilee line I looked at my reflection in the glass screening the track and said aloud F**K THIS CR*P. I took the train back out of London got in my car and drove home, which is the North of England, worried about the bills, etc. Then the phone rang. It was an old line manager. Was I interested in writing some code for him just 20 mins from my home? Err, I'll think about it ;-) Just goes to show, the lord really does act in mysterious ways.


The feeling of relief I feel is immeasurable. It signals the end of a 3 year period of hell. I came to London chasing the big rates at the big banks and it's been nothing but an unmitigated disaster working with some real t0ssers and being interviewed by people I wouldn't p**s upon if they were on fire. I have a contracting friend who did exactly the same and despite being on even bigger money than I was on he is desperate to return home too. We had a plan when we came down here. It was called 'Operation Richard Gere'. The idea being that we'd be cash rich and oozing class at the Corney and Barrow's of this world. What we didn't realise is that we were living 'the dream' prior to our departure.

Enough of my rant. Lager for £ 2.60, Fish & Chips (with summat moist) for way under a fiver, best curries on this island, 50% house prices, better scenery, decent down to earth people, just a shame about the weather (and no I don't own whippets or pigeons!)

Long live the North!

Great post! You are right, you need to balance the extra few bucks against the hassle and pain of daily life. I work for an IB just now and its the worst contract I ever had.

Regarding the pair programming interviews, I would refuse to do that, unless they paid me an hours rate.

[Old Greg]

I' Fish & Chips (with summat moist) for way under a fiver

Please tell me it isn't pea wet.

Anyway, best of luck in the new contract.

[oliverson]

I couldn't stand living in London so I commuted in from Sussex. The train journey, if you believe the timetable was around 48 minutes. But when you start clocking it all up:
20 minutes drive to the train station
1 hour (liars) to London
15 minutes to Canary Wharf
then the time between these journeys and waiting for delayed trains, etc, I found I was approaching the 2 hour mark each way. Then the bare minimum desk time is 08:30 while 17:30 and I mean the bare minimum as you know. You really are expected to stay much longer. You're staring at 14 hour days minimum. No time for working on plan B as you're invariably kn4ckered. You can do some on the train if you buy a 1st class ticket in order to get a seat but it had better be one with a table. Then you have some guy next to you watching your every move. Not an ideal working environment.

Before you know it your life has passed you by and you have the 'commuter stare'. You've lost your morality as you elbow an old woman out of the way in order to grab that train/tube seat before she does or you'll never beat your best score at Angry Birds. Your mates are teeing off at 17:30 at your golf club but there's no way you can leave at 15:30 in order to be there. You spend a fortune at lunchtime at Eat or Pret. Before you know it you're a fully fledged commuter/city worker.

Do we need any of this? Really?

[kandr]

I couldn't stand living in London so I commuted in from Sussex. The train journey, if you believe the timetable was around 48 minutes. But when you start clocking it all up:
20 minutes drive to the train station
1 hour (liars) to London
15 minutes to Canary Wharf
then the time between these journeys and waiting for delayed trains, etc, I found I was approaching the 2 hour mark each way. Then the bare minimum desk time is 08:30 while 17:30 and I mean the bare minimum as you know. You really are expected to stay much longer. You're staring at 14 hour days minimum. No time for working on plan B as you're invariably kn4ckered. You can do some on the train if you buy a 1st class ticket in order to get a seat but it had better be one with a table. Then you have some guy next to you watching your every move. Not an ideal working environment.

Before you know it your life has passed you by and you have the 'commuter stare'. You've lost your morality as you elbow an old woman out of the way in order to grab that train/tube seat before she does or you'll never beat your best score at Angry Birds. Your mates are teeing off at 17:30 at your golf club but there's no way you can leave at 15:30 in order to be there. You spend a fortune at lunchtime at Eat or Pret. Before you know it you're a fully fledged commuter/city worker.

Do we need any of this? Really?

Nope, my last contract was with a certain hardware company (doing .NET) and it was so stress free and the work was fairly interesting. The maximum you worked was 7.5 a day with other negotiating working 4 days or less hours.

[oliverson]

That's how it should be though. It seems like a competition for people to hang around as long as possible in order to somehow give the impression of commitment. If I was the boss it would be an alert that this individual was overloaded or not good at their job, or just plain brown-nosing. There're only so many hours you can be productive anyway in a given day.

These people (London workers) seem to have no life outside work. In the north it's everybody out the door at 17:00 on the dot in order to pursue outside activities. The only people working beyond that are obviously on an hourly rate ;-)

I've met the biggest bulls***ers known to man. Clearly they don't know something but they think that if they shout loud enough and try to talk others down they will come across as an authority on the subject. It's endemic in the London contracting market, well it was in mine. I have no problem saying I don't know something. Perhaps that is my downfall? Maybe it has just happened to be my saviour!