What has the downturn taught you?

[cojak]

I'll be over later Grandma. Do you want me to get you some adult nappies from the supermarket?

Nope - I'll just let you fall on yer arse with that rubbish post...

[MrP]

Personally, I've never found my lack of a degree a problem when it comes to getting work. Skills and experience have always seen me through. I would like to go back to uni and get my degree but that's for personal satisfaction, not a career boost.

My wife has just started an OU degree and is loving it and it has made we wonder whether I should do one too for the reason you state but also help job wise. Question is what though? MBA or IT specific like Project Management...something I need to look into anyway.

Another 12 jobs applied for this morning making about 60 this week and I've had one call back....oh what fun!

[SueEllen]

I disagree. There's probably a lot of people with the same skills and experience out there as you BUT some may have a degree and sadly I strongly believe that most employers would interview those people first before even looking at you. IMHO a degree in itself (unless of course it is a very specific IT degree) isn't worth as much as experience and good old fashioned soft/business skills. However when faced with 200+ applicants for a single role then they're going to narrow it down based on qualifications first and experience second. I know this for a fact as a mate is a pimp for IB's and has been told that they will not look at anyone without a degree irrespective of experience - absolute joke I know!

There is nothing stopping you getting a degree.

It doesn't need to be an undergraduate degree. As you have got plenty of experience you can do a masters. However you will probably need to show evidence of studying in the last few years but what is required varies from institution to institution.

[MarillionFan]

Another 12 jobs applied for this morning making about 60 this week and I've had one call back....oh what fun!

WOW! 60 jobs applied for! I only applied for 12 during my bench time in a month, and I got 3 interviews.

What process do you go through? Do you just fire off a CV? Do you add a covering note? Do you tailor it to the advert? Do you phone the agent or wait for a call?

It may well be it's your approach which is the issue.

[MrP]

WOW! 60 jobs applied for! I only applied for 12 during my bench time in a month, and I got 3 interviews.

What process do you go through? Do you just fire off a CV? Do you add a covering note? Do you tailor it to the advert? Do you phone the agent or wait for a call?

It may well be it's your approach which is the issue.

I'm applying for Project Coordinator/Support/Admin type roles and BA roles. If it's a role I really want then I tinker with the CV if needs be, get the email address of the pimp rather than just applying through the job site and fire it off with a fairly standard cover letter highlighting my skills. I then call about an hour later - invariably they never take the call so I leave a message. If no response then I will call/try again and if still no response then I bin it and move on.

I know it's not the CV it's just for PM support work I am up against loads of experienced PM's who are downgrading to PMO support roles just to find work. Likewise BA roles I don't have the myriad of tools experience so am going to struggle there. Not even worth trying for Dev work in Cobol/DB2 as they don't exist!

Got a 2nd interview next week for a PSO role in a Prince2 environment at an awful rate BUT it will be a good start nonetheless. Fingers crossed.

[rz6bm7]

Did you actually ask anyone for feedback on the quality of your CV?
I have been doing PM PMO PSO role for the last few years and to be honest until the last few months not really had a problem keeping in good contract work, and never has not having a degree been an issue - people pay me because I have proven track record of delivering, and as a contractor that is the bottom line, when hiring other contractors and being hired yourself- not a single piece of paperwork matters.
now if you a permie looking at the career ladder it's a different thing.
I am guessing that something in your CV doesnt sell the skillls you think your selling.

[bingobob]

Not even worth trying for Dev work in Cobol/DB2 as they don't exist!

I'm alarmed as I'd always considered this to be my fallback option. A quick contract search on jobserve for 'COBOL, DB2' returns 76 matches (with some duplicates granted). Am I missing something?

[MrP]

I'm alarmed as I'd always considered this to be my fallback option. A quick contract search on jobserve for 'COBOL, DB2' returns 76 matches (with some duplicates granted). Am I missing something?

You had me worried too. In the areas that I can commute to there are 24 hits and about 20 are supplementary skills to Java, Oracle etc or are DBA/data modelling work which I have no experience of oh and a few with 'must have CICS' which again I have never used. So for me - zilch.

Like I've said before if I had Java or Oracle then I wouldn't be in this pickle!

[MrP]

Did you actually ask anyone for feedback on the quality of your CV?
I have been doing PM PMO PSO role for the last few years and to be honest until the last few months not really had a problem keeping in good contract work, and never has not having a degree been an issue - people pay me because I have proven track record of delivering, and as a contractor that is the bottom line, when hiring other contractors and being hired yourself- not a single piece of paperwork matters.
now if you a permie looking at the career ladder it's a different thing.
I am guessing that something in your CV doesnt sell the skillls you think your selling.

I wish that was the case as I could do something about it but it's not. I have two friends that are Programme Directors and they hire and fire and both have said that it is a good well laid out CV (after they tinkered a bit) for the skills and experience I have. In other words I can't improve it unless I lie and I aint doing that. Fact is once you're out of the game (especially as long as I have been) then it's difficult to get a foot back in.

A case of keep plugging away and sooner or later I will get a decent bite.

[DS23]

.....So to recap what has this downturn taught me - keep skills up to date, show no loyalty whatsoever to an employer, keep eye out for opportunities at all times and don't get in a rut as you like where you work - it's about keeping ahead of the game and the money!

there is a lot of truth in this. get a gig and hunker down in a recession is a reasonable approach but beware the rut. yes, beware the rut. don't treat the client as a haven for too long because what keeps you alive can kill you. refresh, reboot! you might be delivering a solution or providing a service to a blue chip but it is your company - your career - your business.

try to keep on the cutting edge. as each contract finishes try to catch the next big release or try another industry to keep your skills fresh and you fresh. it can be difficult to achieve but if you can recognise the need and create a plan at least you have a chance of executing it.

never stop looking. even if your gig is a dead-cert cutting edge minimum 12 monther - keep looking to see what the clients want and make sure you are ready to deliver.