Agency 'Cut'

[leeperry]

Are you really that stupid to think that a hiring manager is going to spend his time trawling through Google to find a CV of someone that may fit his requirement?

No, and this CV filtering is what an agent does. Often by just doing a seach for keywords across a CV.

[The Agents View]

I know you agents go on and on and on about how much work it is to get clients and positions etc etc etc, but quite frankly any more than that 15% is a giant rip-off.

On my rate that equates to around 300-400 quid every week for up to a year (at which point I approach the client and get them to pay off the agency so I can go direct). So sorry but don't even try to tell me that the bit of smoozing/bulltulipping you did to get me to interview stage is worth 10-20k per annum, let alone any more.

Let me give you an idea of what is ACTUALLY involved in this job, rather than letting your blinkered view influence things.

So...firstly, I have to find roles. That can involve around about 40 phone calls a week (to give you an idea, you probably need to dial 4-5 people, to get to one - each of those calls needs a "reason to call"). Once I've got through to those people, I have to try and get past the first 2-3 second objection period. Should I then be able to pick up a specific requirement, I then have to go through a period of qualification of what they need (this can take up to an hour dependant on the complexity of the role). If there are no roles, then it's on to the next call.

So lets imagine this is a perfect world, and I've managed to pick up a role on my first call of the day shall we...... So first thing to do is compile my thoughts into a job spec (to use later down the line). Then it's into my network - whether thats the right person first time, or someone I can hop off of (i.e Programme Manager level, when I need a Project Manager - do they know someone?)

Should that not work, then it's out to the job boards - get the role advertised - expect 2-300 responses to this - oh and generally you would be expected to at least scan every application.

From there, select the people you think are suitable - make long list.

Short list with initial telephone call.

Select 3-4 people to speak to in depth (this can again take in the region of 45mins - 1 hr).

Once thats done, assuming you trust in, and believe in the individuals skills, it's time to push the interview. Firstly, time to cover the CV with a synopsis (call it an executive summary if you like) - this can take an hour or so, dependant on how in depth you need to be.

Then, call the client - discuss why I think the person is right - try to book the interview there and then - else send covered CV to client and await feedback. Chase feedback in 24 hours when client has forgotten (yes it happens all the time, and yes, it's as frustrating for us as it is to you).

Take up references to bolster application.

Book interview.

Following interview, debrief candidate (this is a 30 minute conversation generally).

Once complete, de-brief with client.

Advise both parties of each others situation and thoughts.

Advise client on best way to proceed.

Deal with candidate who has had another offer come in.

Negotiate pay and charge rates.

Cope with all objections.

Take up further references.

Place contractor.

Contact contractor repeatedly throughout assignment (once a month min. How are things going? What else is going on? Anything I can do to make things easier for them? do they need anyone? etc etc).


So how much do YOU think is reasonable? £3k? 4k?

Let me tell you something about recruiters. WE don't get paid anything like the 20k mark per placement. In reality, that 20k is paid to us in the form of commission. On 20K's worth of fees, you can generally expect the agent to earn £2k per annum. Bearing in mind our basics are generally very low, you now understand that to get to say £50k per annum, you're looking at running around 15 contractors at £400 per week margin.

Add into that, the investment of time into you, the CV tweaking, the tracking down, the bulltulip gatherings that we all go to, the paperwork to get you placed, the checks that have to go on for certain roles, etc etc.

Sure there are exceptions to this process, and sometimes we do make a quick buck out of a placement - but being honest with yourself - would you do all of that, at 1000000 mile per hours every day, for a measly £50k?

So next time you berate an agent for how much money they "take off" you, have a little think about the amount of effort that goes into each placement - I'm fairly sure that you'd not find anyone else willing to take on that kind of role for you, completely free of charge (make no mistake, we do not charge you, we charge the client).

The above is a perfect world scenario - if it was that easy all the time, I'd be very very rich.

Hope this helps.

TAV

[Stan.goodvibes]

Yeah maybe when the goings a bit tough like in the last couple of years, but of my recent experience in Sydney, I've had at least 2 agents tell me that roles are just falling onto their desk (one agent had 28 roles to fill) from clients at the moment without them having to do anything (once they have a PSA in place).

So for the role I got accepted for a couple of weeks ago the workload the agent put into it amounted to getting the advert on SEEK. I saw it, phoned and sent my CV, agent found ONE other candidate to send to interview, i got the job offer, but then the client bailed on the contract.

Agent got hourly rate wrong, location wrong, and then when contract fell over txt'd me to tell me, because he didn't have the balls to call me.

And my agent friend who got me my last role earned 200k last year.

Yours unconvinced of how much work you do,

Dave

[lightng]

Let me give you an idea of what is ACTUALLY involved in this job, rather than letting your blinkered view influence things....

I'm reminded of that Austin Powers scene.

"No one ever thinks about the family of the henchman"

Top rant though.

[DodgyAgent]

Let me give you an idea of what is ACTUALLY involved in this job, rather than letting your blinkered view influence things.

So...firstly, I have to find roles. That can involve around about 40 phone calls a week (to give you an idea, you probably need to dial 4-5 people, to get to one - each of those calls needs a "reason to call"). Once I've got through to those people, I have to try and get past the first 2-3 second objection period. Should I then be able to pick up a specific requirement, I then have to go through a period of qualification of what they need (this can take up to an hour dependant on the complexity of the role). If there are no roles, then it's on to the next call.

So lets imagine this is a perfect world, and I've managed to pick up a role on my first call of the day shall we...... So first thing to do is compile my thoughts into a job spec (to use later down the line). Then it's into my network - whether thats the right person first time, or someone I can hop off of (i.e Programme Manager level, when I need a Project Manager - do they know someone?)

Should that not work, then it's out to the job boards - get the role advertised - expect 2-300 responses to this - oh and generally you would be expected to at least scan every application.

From there, select the people you think are suitable - make long list.

Short list with initial telephone call.

Select 3-4 people to speak to in depth (this can again take in the region of 45mins - 1 hr).

Once thats done, assuming you trust in, and believe in the individuals skills, it's time to push the interview. Firstly, time to cover the CV with a synopsis (call it an executive summary if you like) - this can take an hour or so, dependant on how in depth you need to be.

Then, call the client - discuss why I think the person is right - try to book the interview there and then - else send covered CV to client and await feedback. Chase feedback in 24 hours when client has forgotten (yes it happens all the time, and yes, it's as frustrating for us as it is to you).

Take up references to bolster application.

Book interview.

Following interview, debrief candidate (this is a 30 minute conversation generally).

Once complete, de-brief with client.

Advise both parties of each others situation and thoughts.

Advise client on best way to proceed.

Deal with candidate who has had another offer come in.

Negotiate pay and charge rates.

Cope with all objections.

Take up further references.

Place contractor.

Contact contractor repeatedly throughout assignment (once a month min. How are things going? What else is going on? Anything I can do to make things easier for them? do they need anyone? etc etc).


So how much do YOU think is reasonable? £3k? 4k?

Let me tell you something about recruiters. WE don't get paid anything like the 20k mark per placement. In reality, that 20k is paid to us in the form of commission. On 20K's worth of fees, you can generally expect the agent to earn £2k per annum. Bearing in mind our basics are generally very low, you now understand that to get to say £50k per annum, you're looking at running around 15 contractors at £400 per week margin.

Add into that, the investment of time into you, the CV tweaking, the tracking down, the bulltulip gatherings that we all go to, the paperwork to get you placed, the checks that have to go on for certain roles, etc etc.

Sure there are exceptions to this process, and sometimes we do make a quick buck out of a placement - but being honest with yourself - would you do all of that, at 1000000 mile per hours every day, for a measly £50k?

So next time you berate an agent for how much money they "take off" you, have a little think about the amount of effort that goes into each placement - I'm fairly sure that you'd not find anyone else willing to take on that kind of role for you, completely free of charge (make no mistake, we do not charge you, we charge the client).

The above is a perfect world scenario - if it was that easy all the time, I'd be very very rich.

Hope this helps.

TAV

Why dont you just tell them to STFU?

[GWilliy]

Wow - what a humungus amount of work Agents do

Seems a little inneficient to go through all this for every Contract position

Maybe one day someone will start an organization like CORGI or The Guild of Master Craftsmen but for IT Contractors?

I'd pay a couple of hundred per yr to register with em if they had .gov backing/approval/legal requirement (like Corgi)

They could simply hold a database of searchable CV's (possibly Academic Qual/prev employment pre checked etc), searchable by clients/anyone, much like Jobserve

Have standardised formats of CV's, Contracts, Invoices, Payment terms, Non-Disc, Opt-Out Agreements etc. freely available.

ooops, just saved the Industry XMillion GBP & made the entire process a damn site more easy & reliable.

Any one fancy setting it up, BCS/ContractorUK/YOU etc

Just a thought.

[DodgyAgent]

Let me give you an idea of what is ACTUALLY involved in this job, rather than letting your blinkered view influence things.

So...firstly, I have to find roles. That can involve around about 40 phone calls a week (to give you an idea, you probably need to dial 4-5 people, to get to one - each of those calls needs a "reason to call"). Once I've got through to those people, I have to try and get past the first 2-3 second objection period. Should I then be able to pick up a specific requirement, I then have to go through a period of qualification of what they need (this can take up to an hour dependant on the complexity of the role). If there are no roles, then it's on to the next call.

So lets imagine this is a perfect world, and I've managed to pick up a role on my first call of the day shall we...... So first thing to do is compile my thoughts into a job spec (to use later down the line). Then it's into my network - whether thats the right person first time, or someone I can hop off of (i.e Programme Manager level, when I need a Project Manager - do they know someone?)

Should that not work, then it's out to the job boards - get the role advertised - expect 2-300 responses to this - oh and generally you would be expected to at least scan every application.

From there, select the people you think are suitable - make long list.

Short list with initial telephone call.

Select 3-4 people to speak to in depth (this can again take in the region of 45mins - 1 hr).

Once thats done, assuming you trust in, and believe in the individuals skills, it's time to push the interview. Firstly, time to cover the CV with a synopsis (call it an executive summary if you like) - this can take an hour or so, dependant on how in depth you need to be.

Then, call the client - discuss why I think the person is right - try to book the interview there and then - else send covered CV to client and await feedback. Chase feedback in 24 hours when client has forgotten (yes it happens all the time, and yes, it's as frustrating for us as it is to you).

Take up references to bolster application.

Book interview.

Following interview, debrief candidate (this is a 30 minute conversation generally).

Once complete, de-brief with client.

Advise both parties of each others situation and thoughts.

Advise client on best way to proceed.

Deal with candidate who has had another offer come in.

Negotiate pay and charge rates.

Cope with all objections.

Take up further references.

Place contractor.

Contact contractor repeatedly throughout assignment (once a month min. How are things going? What else is going on? Anything I can do to make things easier for them? do they need anyone? etc etc).


So how much do YOU think is reasonable? £3k? 4k?

Let me tell you something about recruiters. WE don't get paid anything like the 20k mark per placement. In reality, that 20k is paid to us in the form of commission. On 20K's worth of fees, you can generally expect the agent to earn £2k per annum. Bearing in mind our basics are generally very low, you now understand that to get to say £50k per annum, you're looking at running around 15 contractors at £400 per week margin.

Add into that, the investment of time into you, the CV tweaking, the tracking down, the bulltulip gatherings that we all go to, the paperwork to get you placed, the checks that have to go on for certain roles, etc etc.

Sure there are exceptions to this process, and sometimes we do make a quick buck out of a placement - but being honest with yourself - would you do all of that, at 1000000 mile per hours every day, for a measly £50k?

So next time you berate an agent for how much money they "take off" you, have a little think about the amount of effort that goes into each placement - I'm fairly sure that you'd not find anyone else willing to take on that kind of role for you, completely free of charge (make no mistake, we do not charge you, we charge the client).

The above is a perfect world scenario - if it was that easy all the time, I'd be very very rich.

Hope this helps.

TAV

I will add that agents go through a lot of these processes yet only one in about ten actually leads to a placement. 90% of the jobs that they/we work on never materialise in an actual placement for any of the following reasons:

1. The job is pulled
2. Another agency beats you to it
3. The contractors submitted are not good enough
4. The contractor you hoped would take the job stays where he is or takes another position.

The skill in the job is being able to "read" situations that reduce the likelihood of the above happening. The hard work involved is in playing the numbers game.
The rewards can however be fantastic

[escapeUK]

Let me give you an idea of what is So...firstly, I have to find roles. That can involve around about 40 phone calls a week (to give you an idea, you probably need to dial 4-5 people, to get to one - each of those calls needs a "reason to call"). Once I've got through to those people, I have to try and get past the first 2-3 second objection period.

Perhaps you should have taken a hint during the objection period, or maybe the 4-5 people who didnt want to take your call. People dont want to deal with you, nor do the contractors. Parasite.

[DodgyAgent]

Perhaps you should have taken a hint during the objection period, or maybe the 4-5 people who didnt want to take your call. People dont want to deal with you, nor do the contractors. Parasite.

How would you have got on then? You clearly do not understand sales do you?

[digerido]

I don't wish to offend you agent but 99.9% of recruitment 'consultants' are cowboys looking to make a sale at any cost! It's all about sales and nothing else. You will place the man that makes you the most money and not who is most suitable for the end client...

I'm not bitter, I don't harbour any grudges and I've been fortunate to be in roles more often than not in 12'ish years of contracting, I'm just telling you how it is. You know this as well as I do.

Well done for trying to glamorise your position but lets be fair that's all you have done isn't it? Trying to justify your self worth