Armed and ready to negotiate

[reverie]

Hi All,

Just need some input from experienced contractors.

I effectively work for an umbrella company who upon receiving my timesheets invoice an agency who in turn invoice company A who have the contract for the Desktop Support of company B (the client).

I have been working on an assignment for company B for the past 15 months and I am much more reliable and competent than the permanent staff of which there are 4.
There are 2 other contractors at the site I work at who are in the same situation and 3 others at another site.

I know for a fact that the permanent staff are on a much higher rate than what I am on. (Everyone I say that to always says ‘what, you’re joking, right’)

The thing I want to know is where is the border between a contractor and permanent?
Does working at the same site for the same client for 15 months still warrant being a contractor?

In an ideal world I would settle for a huge pay increase as a contractor, but that’s never going to happen, so I am going to ask to be taken on as a permanent employee at the same rate as the other permanent employees.

I am going to set up a meeting with the contract accounts manager and want to be forearmed with the correct information so I can negotiate successfully.

Any input would be gladly received.

[northernladuk]

Interesting question so my input for what its worth..

I know for a fact that the permanent staff are on a much higher rate than what I am on. (Everyone I say that to always says ‘what, you’re joking, right’)

You have to be very very sure about this before you jump in and also factor in they pay more in tax and pay for their benefits etc. Also don't take the word of the perm guys. If they are jealous of you they are gonna tell you they are on more just to p*ss you off. Talking rates with colleagues perm and contractor when you are on a job is a recipie for disaster with people lying, being angry about what they are on etc. Be absolutely 100% sure of this before you make any moves based on rates!!!

and I am much more reliable and competent than the permanent staff of which there are 4.

Thats permies for you. They are in a position to be like that because of their employed status imo

The thing I want to know is where is the border between a contractor and permanent?

No. Totally different things that need totally different engagement and different laws. There is another question open at the moment about someone working for a client for a very long time. You have to be taken on as a permie, if you havn't signed anything you are not permie. End off. (ok ok there maybe some minor law here but that will do as a generalisation esepcially for 15 months)

Does working at the same site for the same client for 15 months still warrant being a contractor?

Of course. You have a contract to be there to do work as a contractor therefor you are a contractor.

I am going to set up a meeting with the contract accounts manager and want to be forearmed with the correct information so I can negotiate successfully.

Go for it. I wouldn't say however you are really in a position to negotiate from what you say. They have you on as a contractor for a reason, cheap labour (still wondering why!!!), short term etc. To go for a perm position there has to be one open. If there isn't you don't have a leg to stand on? Often companies take on contractors because there is a total ban on headcount (stupid but we arn't going to argue!) It could be there is no way to open a new position politically.

[RichardCranium]

I would have thought that if you approach the company, having been there 15 months as a temp / contractor, and ask to be taken on, they will look sympathetically at your request. You have shown you can do the job and that you want to be there; those are amongst the most important selection criteria in recruitment.

What you need to do is convince them of why you want to work for them - and 'more money' is a very poor reason to an employer. You need to be telling them how you respect them, want to be a part of what they do, how you want to progress, how you could be giving more in a more senior role, but you need to be on their corporate ladder to do it.

The agency will possibly want to be bought off. But since you say you are on crap money, and you've been there over a year, the agency may be on a 40%+ margin and done quite nicely out of you anyway and they might let you go. Try asking the agent nicely - tell them what you want to do in a really smarmy way and they might let you do it just to keep the client happy.