The Times picks up on Migrant IT Workers

[norrahe]

What we're actually having to deal with is not the skills are any better elsewhere, is that mutinationals are only interested in penny pinching, and as a result of this many skilled individuals in this country are losing out.

Companies are only interested in the bottom line and if they can save money then so be it, at the sake of their own employees.

This is not globalisation, but the utilisation of resources that will get things done cheaply.

[Gary_Jones]

thats a nice series of replies - swamp is very hostile for what reason? Everyone has different political views. I'm not labelling or writing huge emoticon filled posts at people who hold a view which is opposite to me.

Regarding "outsourcing <> globalisation" I do kind of see these as the same thing tbh. Maybe I'm wrong.

[gingerjedi]

So you advocate foreign companies circumventing UK law?

[kingshuk]

This is not globalisation, but the utilisation of resources that will get things done cheaply.

Don't know about you but I think it is globalisation too. Initially capital and now gradually (though not anywhere like capital) labour is very mobile.

If there are enough UK voters who think in similar lines (I doubt) eventually a government may be elected that will clamp down on this particular route. But companies wishing to save money will find some other way.

Whats the point in paying a higher charge for a service/product that can be bought at a cheaper price at an acceptable quality (Now please don't start on how you corrected the indian programmer's code and how bad his english was :-) )

As long as this labour price arbitrage exists companies and governments will use it. How do you think textile workers, ship builders, coal miners felt a while ago? What did the likes of you do to help them?

[Incognito]

How do you think textile workers, ship builders, coal miners felt a while ago? What did the likes of you do to help them?

What complete arris. You have failed to notice this topic is about industry abusing the ICT scheme to bring migrant workers into the UK, not about offloading code to Bangalore. You are comparing a services based industry with manufacturing.

If the UK government had allowed the likes of BAE to replace the ship builders in Govan with Bob Shawaddywaddy who'd read about welding from a manual but was plenty cheap then maybe we could have a discussion.

[Mozart]

Sorry but anyone who defends this approach is living in LalaLand. Fact is, in my experience as a BA, whenever development has been given to Indian workers, it has a higher rate of defects because they dont understand the business and they have a different way of thinking based on their schooling, much more linear rather than lateral. This results in the work taking 3 times as long to complete so any perceived cost savings are pure fantasy. Admittedly there are a lot of cowboy developers in the UK but the good ones far outshine the foreigners.

[kingshuk]

What complete arris. You have failed to notice this topic is about industry abusing the ICT scheme to bring migrant workers into the UK, not about offloading code to Bangalore. You are comparing a services based industry with manufacturing.

Agreed those were in manufacturing sector. I think they disappeared because it was cheaper (= more profitable) to do their work somewhere else.

Similarly I think companies here that keep buying services at a higher price that can be obtained somewhere else at a much cheaper price will become wise and buy it somewhere else or will die. Also companies will keep seeking ways to bring in cheaper service providers legally. If the government closes one loophole (and I really doubt it will) they will find another.

Really the only way to survive in the long term is to continuously upgrade skills.

[kingshuk]

Sorry but anyone who defends this approach is living in LalaLand. Fact is, in my experience as a BA, whenever development has been given to Indian workers, it has a higher rate of defects because they dont understand the business and they have a different way of thinking based on their schooling, much more linear rather than lateral. This results in the work taking 3 times as long to complete so any perceived cost savings are pure fantasy. Admittedly there are a lot of cowboy developers in the UK but the good ones far outshine the foreigners.

And yet more and more large companies keep using cheaper Indian service providers.

Why? Can't they see through this? Don't they have managers who think as clearly as most CUK forum users? Are ALL the FTSE 100 company managers incompetent, short sighted, cynical or corrupt?

I think it is because finally the projects are still delivered at a cheaper price at an acceptable quality. At the ground level you (and me too) see lot of problems with quality of implementation. But the final outcome is good enough and cheaper more often than not.

[Scary]

Are ALL the FTSE 100 company managers incompetent, short sighted, cynical or corrupt?

Yes, HTH. (Although I'd use 'and' rather than 'or'.)

[ratewhore]

thats a nice series of replies - swamp is very hostile for what reason? Everyone has different political views. I'm not labelling or writing huge emoticon filled posts at people who hold a view which is opposite to me.

You'll find this board riddled with groupthink. If you have your own opinion, different to the view held by a small cabal on here, there will be some incoming heading your way.

These cabals come and go over time. Not so long ago there was quite a vitriolic little group, but I think they've moved on now...