A question for Java developers... how wide are your skills?

[swamp]

How do you get this experience? Every project I ever worked on was an existing project... sure I can figure Ant out in every detail but that's not the same as knowing the best way to set up a Java-based web project from scratch.

In many cases, you could steal scripts/inspiration from an existing project but as
for starting at the very beginning, I wouldn't imagine books cover this precisely because most people don't have to do it.

You're right, it's rare to set things up from scratch. In my case I once had to completely re-engineer the build ANT process because the (dumb-ass) 'architect' demanded that the project be split into separate EARs. And more recently I completely rewrote the ANT build script because it was complete cack.

However I really learnt my stuff with ANT on agile projects. Saw some really good stuff going on in some places. At the end of the day you want *every* Java project should be able to be fully built, deployed and tested on any virgin dev box (Linux or XP) thus:

svn checkout <project_name>
cd <project_name>
ant

[thunderlizard]

I reckon for every 50 people that have SVN, NANT, CruiseControl etc.. on their CVs, maybe 1 knows how to set it all up.

I'd be surprised if more than 50 people in the universe properly know how to set up CruiseControl. I've set it up on 3 sites, each time taking about a day's worth of googling obscure config settings and trace log errors, and I'm still none the wiser.

[swamp]

I'd be surprised if more than 50 people in the universe properly know how to set up CruiseControl. I've set it up on 3 sites, each time taking about a day's worth of googling obscure config settings and trace log errors, and I'm still none the wiser.

CruiseControl is a pile. However it was first, and it's still very handy. Heard Bamboo is good, but TeamCity is probably the way forward.

[minestrone]

I just copy my last ANT script and change it about a bit, been doing that for years. I constantly find reams of logic in client's scripts. If your ANT script is more than 200 lines then there is something wrong.

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

I had a 3 month contract once where I did nothing but ANT-, ClearCase- and ClearQuest-scripting. TBH, as far as I'm concerned, unless you actually understand _everything_ in the J2EE specs and at least Hibernate on top of that (if you understand J2EE in it's entirety, you're downward compatible with Spring), you're not a proper Java-bod.

ANT comes after these, preferably with Maven.

That and knowing core java inside-out, obviously.

If you can't debug a 3rd party library's issues from decompiled Java bytecode, you shouldn't be a contractor. Seriously, what is it that stops you from learning these things?

[swamp]

I had a 3 month contract once where I did nothing but ANT-, ClearCase- and ClearQuest-scripting. TBH, as far as I'm concerned, unless you actually understand _everything_ in the J2EE specs and at least Hibernate on top of that (if you understand J2EE in it's entirety, you're downward compatible with Spring), you're not a proper Java-bod.

ANT comes after these, preferably with Maven.

That and knowing core java inside-out, obviously.

If you can't debug a 3rd party library's issues from decompiled Java bytecode, you shouldn't be a contractor. Seriously, what is it that stops you from learning these things?

I agree with most of what you say, but being a 'good' contractor and a good (Java) developer are not necessarily the same thing. Some of the most successful contractors are not that technically able.

Of course the best contractors are technically tulip hot

[d000hg]

If you can't debug a 3rd party library's issues from decompiled Java bytecode, you shouldn't be a contractor. Seriously, what is it that stops you from learning these things?

Having work to do?

[minestrone]

In 12 years of java I don't think I have ever decompiled a library and debugged through it.

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

In 12 years of java I don't think I have ever decompiled a library and debugged through it.

That's shocking. I even patched issues doing that with Weblogic, which has the best support I've ever seen. I have to do that once every year (2 years, maybe) on average.

[kingshuk]

That's shocking. I even patched issues doing that with Weblogic, which has the best support I've ever seen. I have to do that once every year (2 years, maybe) on average.

Yah right. And I use a magnetic needle to etch those byte codes right into the correct disk block.