Warranties in contracts

**jim2406** · 18 August 2009, 11:34

on the other hand probably a good argument against ir35?

shows you are taking on risk..

**rootsnall** · 18 August 2009, 11:45

Originally posted by jim2406 View Post

on the other hand probably a good argument against ir35?

shows you are taking on risk..

Risk alright ! You'd need a 50 page contract and a better spec than I've ever seen to be taking on that sort of risk with any degree of certainty of how it'll pan out. It's a charter for agents / clients to rip you off !

In reality once you are paid then they'll be chasing a one man Ltd to enforce the warranty, so not worth their while but aggro for us none the less.

**thunderlizard** · 18 August 2009, 11:49

That sounds fair enough. When I'm paying for something I expect it to work.

**rootsnall** · 18 August 2009, 12:09

Originally posted by thunderlizard View Post

That sounds fair enough. When I'm paying for something I expect it to work.

It isn't that simple though ! I've just been working on some interfaces that have hundreds of requirements on one side, and hundreds on the other, and probably a hundred that the client hasn't even thought of yet. At one point does that piece of work go under warranty and require you to work on it for free ? It'll need changes on a weekly or even daily basis. A tinpot standalone program with a good spec maybe but in most cases it's a nightmare.

**Not So Wise** · 18 August 2009, 12:19

Would not sign a contract with warranty clause in it unless the it had the agreed spec as part of the contract and that spec was detailed as hell and the client knew that anything not in spec would cost extra.

Without the spec what exactly would one be "guaranteeing"? Whatever the client decides after the fact is not working/missing.

Warrantees require one to quote a price for the whole project or more accurately "the product", rather than a hourly/daily rate

**BlasterBates** · 18 August 2009, 12:25

Works both ways, the vagueness allows you to charge for a change in requirement. Once you've left the project the onus is on them to prove it's a bug. Just think of yourself as a second-hand car dealer. Nuffink to worry about.

However if you do discover a warranty in your contract, you now need to negotiate a premium on top of your rate, or reject. The warranty isn't free.

**thunderlizard** · 18 August 2009, 12:28

The client can only claim under the warranty if he can point to the bit in the specification that he hasn't fulfilled. So you're right it is necessary to have a tight enough specification, even though a vague one will work in the supplier's favour because it's harder to prove a fault.

There are far too many contractors out there who want to be paid based on the amount of time their bum spends in contact with the client's chair, regardless of how many mistakes are made.

**DSW** · 18 August 2009, 12:30

The only time I've heard of warranties in a contract is for fixed price contracts and then there would be a warranty period (normally 1 month). You would need to get work signed off as well i.e. when it passes UAT. A warranty clause without any other scope is just suicide imho. You will end up giving them free support. Also given that you are taking on more risk I would expect the rate to be higher and as others have mentioned you end up in requirements hell and spend more time arguing what is a fix and what is a change.

yeah maybe good for ir35 but its got the potential to break you as well (hence why its good for ir35)!

**thunderlizard** · 18 August 2009, 12:33

taking on more risk I would expect the rate to be higher

Well of course. That's the only kind of business worth being in.

Warranties in contracts