Is it possible to convince someone to offer contract instead of permanent?

[xchaotic]

In a case where you are offered an otherwise a very nice permanent position, do you think it would be possible to convince the company's MD to offer a contract with a higher rate instead of permanent offer?
Has anyone laid out benefits of such thing to the prospective employer/client?
Any success?

[PhilAtBFCA]

xchaotic

As an employer I think it may be possible, but you would need to consider IR35 carefully, if the employer, or engager lest say, wants an employee then IR35 is going to present a problem.

The engager needs to buy into the whole package really, about you being a freelancer, and the engagement needs tobe one where thats possible too.

Phil

[malvolio]

It depends why they want a permie. If it's for a genuine long term role then probably not. If it's one of these damned silly Fixed Term contracts that are getting so popular, then it will be tricky, mostly becuase the HR wonks think that FTCs offer them better protection against claims for employment rights. Go figure.

Certainly ask the question, but the answer is very likely to be no...

[xchaotic]

Thanks for the answers.
This seems to be a long-term assingment, which is nice in these rough times, but the role would involve travel etc, and I think rather than going through client's possibly complicated internal procedures for claiming those expenses, I'd much rather do my own expenses and claim those along with weekly/mothly invoices for the work.
It seem much less work on both ends and more legitimate expenses that I can claim - meaning it would actually start to resemble a more traditional company more, whatever the definition might be...

Does it sound like a valid argument?
I am also going to argue, that it is going to cost them the same or less, give them more flexibility, they wouldn't have to pay for my time off sick on vacation etc..

Wait... I might go with the permie after all

[Sockpuppet]

Depends on the company.

The smaller it is the better chance you stand.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Thanks for the answers.
This seems to be a long-term assingment, which is nice in these rough times, but the role would involve travel etc, and I think rather than going through client's possibly complicated internal procedures for claiming those expenses, I'd much rather do my own expenses and claim those along with weekly/mothly invoices for the work.
It seem much less work on both ends and more legitimate expenses that I can claim - meaning it would actually start to resemble a more traditional company more, whatever the definition might be...

Does it sound like a valid argument?
I am also going to argue, that it is going to cost them the same or less, give them more flexibility, they wouldn't have to pay for my time off sick on vacation etc..

Wait... I might go with the permie after all

On the 'complicated internal procedures for internal expenses' - I don't think it sounds like a valid argument at all and you are hardly being complimentary to your prospective employer / client. Even if you wing it, don't expect to book business class and be able to invoice it if they would not have allowed business class travel for you as an employee.

You need to take the line on the better flexibility, no holiday pay, no sickness pay, no pension, no parental leave etc etc and no notice period - they will not offer you more than what it would have cost them so they will work it all out if they are interested, then you have to see if that matches what you expect.

Good luck anyway.

[xchaotic]

On the 'complicated internal procedures for internal expenses' - I don't think it sounds like a valid argument at all and you are hardly being complimentary to your prospective employer / client.

Thanks. You are very right in saying that I don't want to dis their procedure on an interview...

You need to take the line on the better flexibility, no holiday pay, no sickness pay, no pension, no parental leave etc etc and no notice period - they will not offer you more than what it would have cost them so they will work it all out if they are interested, then you have to see if that matches what you expect.

Good luck anyway.

I might indeed pitch it that way, but again, that doesn't seem all that positive, it didn't convince even me, so I might go for the permie after all..

[malvolio]

Work out the equivalent rate (gross salary / 1000 = hourly rate, near enough) and pitch for that. Point out there are no downsides to doing it as a contractor, there is no risk of non payment of taxes and your approach to work will be exactly the same. Plus the contract need only last as long as it has to, rather than some arbitrary period, you won't require HR support, training on esoterica such as H&SE requirements, provisons for holidays, pensions or SSPs and there are no risks at the end of you claiming for employment rights (which there are under an FTC, no matter what it says and what most HR teams actually believe).

Still won't work, but it will be an interesting conversation.

[Stan.goodvibes]

I did it in my current role.

Worked out my gross salary plus holiday pay, stats, sick leave etc etc etc and came up with a comparable hourly rate. It was a bit of a drop on what I had been on but I wanted to be contracting.

Then convinced the agent to accept the one-off placement fee that she would have got if I had taken the permy role, and let me go direct without any hourly agency charge.

The clientco saw it wasn't going to cost them much more, if any. The agent figured a one-off fee of around $10,000 was better than nothing. Result: I have been contracting direct for clientco now for the last 15 months, and still going strong.