Blatant advert for role due for an Indian National

[pzz76077]

Not sure the japanese is the best example - their economy has been in the doldrums for a while now and Honda, Nissan, Sony etc have manufacturing plants here.

The point I was making was that no one did anything to stop manufacturing leaving the UK for good, and that I see nothing that will stop IT contracting roles going the same way.

PZZ

[minestrone]

The point I was making was that no one did anything to stop manufacturing leaving the UK for good, and that I see nothing that will stop IT contracting roles going the same way.

PZZ

I don't think you really get the difference between outsourcing and insourcing, or you have shown no understanding off the difference on this thread.

As I, and others have said, I do not bother about software going offshore as they most often **** it up, you cannot write top class software for a bank if you are not very close to the business. I do bother about some Indian getting shipped over to work here for 1/3 cost of my daily rate. The former cannot be changed the latter can.

[pzz76077]

I don't think you really get the difference between outsourcing and insourcing, or you have shown no understanding off the difference on this thread.

As I, and others have said, I do not bother about software going offshore as they most often **** it up, you cannot write top class software for a bank if you are not very close to the business. I do bother about some Indian getting shipped over to work here for 1/3 cost of my daily rate. The former cannot be changed the latter can.

Having spent most of the last 12 years in both insourcing and outsourcing, I can claim to be an expert on this point. You could justifiably slag me off on just about any other subject, but trust me on this never.
Ive been party to several long term strategy presentations for some of the majors in the business and believe me contractor roles are targeted currently, agents will be next.

Being close to the heart of the business is the role of the current ICT's. They report back to base camp, and well you can guess the rest. Again its not a party that UK contractors will be invited to.



PZZ

[JoJoGabor]

Interesting, Pzz I assume you work for one of the Indian IT companies?

[pzz76077]

Interesting, Pzz I assume you work for one of the Indian IT companies?

No, I work for me, have done for the last 25.6 years as a contractor.

PZZ

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

And what will make those Indians become better programmers? Because all this time you've been telling us how great the discussed business-model is, yet always dodge discussing the points others have raised earlier, namely quality.

I can easily outcode 10 of those guys and am doing it on a daily basis. This is not bravado, this is fact. I deal with 10 issues while they deal with one. If it's anything important, we're the ones looking at it, and there's no part of the system we develop which works and has not been rewritten by a contractor on the team.

In fact, I've been seeing the "great outsourcing" miracle happening ever since 2001. If it would have worked back then, why have all those roles come back? You keep saying that this time it will be different, yet show nothing for that statement, when we have historical evidence that it's going to fail.

Again, what makes this new wave of offshoring any different to the one started in 2000?

[stuart_75]

I'll just add my 2p's worth.

I'm working on a project where lots of Indians have been shipped in on poor permie wages (approx 25K). The English contractors on £350 a day have all had their rates slashed or been binned. The indians know they are being shafted but once they have gained a perm visas, they will all want proper money and I guess rates will have to rise.

[pzz76077]

And what will make those Indians become better programmers? Because all this time you've been telling us how great the discussed business-model is, yet always dodge discussing the points others have raised earlier, namely quality.

I can easily outcode 10 of those guys and am doing it on a daily basis. This is not bravado, this is fact. I deal with 10 issues while they deal with one. If it's anything important, we're the ones looking at it, and there's no part of the system we develop which works and has not been rewritten by a contractor on the team.

In fact, I've been seeing the "great outsourcing" miracle happening ever since 2001. If it would have worked back then, why have all those roles come back? You keep saying that this time it will be different, yet show nothing for that statement, when we have historical evidence that it's going to fail.

Again, what makes this new wave of offshoring any different to the one started in 2000?

What made Far Eastern companies better at making TV's, cars in fact any procuct you care to mention??
Nothing, in fact they are not the best, just the only ones you can buy at a reasonable price.
I dont know what your argument is,they dont need to be better or anything else, they just need to win the business that UK contractors have lost. In this field they are easily outdoing the UK on any pedantic benchmark you care to quote. 10 million western IT jobs have been lost to the 3rd world in the last 10 years, this is the only figure that should keep you awake at night.

PZZ

[BarbarianAtTheDoor]

What made Far Eastern companies better at making TV's, cars in fact any procuct you care to mention??

Diligence, honesty and humility.

The Indian companies I've worked with were lying, cheating bastards with monkeys for managers (just like most western consultancies), a far cry from the far-eastern companies I've seen.

Again, we're talking generics, when you seem to think you know something specific that has changed about their conditions recently.

My salary has went up around 6-folds in the last 6 years, so again, what has changed since 2001?

Productivity in programming is not an arbitrary benchmark, coding is a lot like bricklaying. My code works, their doesn't.

[pzz76077]

Diligence, honesty and humility.

The Indian companies I've worked with were lying, cheating bastards with monkeys for managers (just like most western consultancies), a far cry from the far-eastern companies I've seen.

Again, we're talking generics, when you seem to think you know something specific that has changed about their conditions recently.

My salary has went up around 6-folds in the last 6 years, so again, what has changed since 2001?

Productivity in programming is not an arbitrary benchmark, coding is a lot like bricklaying. My code works, their doesn't.

Again, I dont know where you are coming from, the facts are that UK contract roles are being lost to outsouce/ICT's left right and centre. If you think that this has any bearing on your coding abilities, then you need to look at a much bigger picture. Coding is such an insignificant part of the deals I am working on, they are not worth mentioning.

PZZ