Project Management Recruitment Agencies?

**malvolio** · 4 October 2005, 11:03

1. Get a contract then resign. Doing it the other way round is dangerous. However, notice periods may be a problem - but nobody said it would be easy!

2. What's ITIL got to do with PMing? (just curious - for the avoidance of doubt, I know both, intimately!).

3. The best agency is the one with the job. They do not specialise particularly, and you will not be in the position to pick and choose.

4. As I have said before, I never care what paperwork you have, I want to see what you have done to time and budget and whether or not you have done something aligned to the job in hand (I realise a good PM can do anything, but the permies of this world don't understand that). If I take on a freelance PM I need to know that I can send them off to do something and it will be done proerly: that means I want to see people that have run whole projects, not that have been involved in other people's ones. You can only sell experience as a freelance - there are too many people out there with all the qualifications and no ability!

Whatever, best of luck - you may need it!

**ratewhore** · 4 October 2005, 11:04

Speak to DBI consulting, they generally look for permie and associate Prince 2 qualified PM's...

http://www.dbiconsulting.co.uk/

**HughGBanana** · 4 October 2005, 11:20

1. Get a contract then resign. Doing it the other way round is dangerous. However, notice periods may be a problem - but nobody said it would be easy!

Agreed, but being available at short notice could be a slight advantage. Maybe not so on your first.

2. What's ITIL got to do with PMing? (just curious - for the avoidance of doubt, I know both, intimately!).

I currently work in the service delivery/management environment

3. The best agency is the one with the job. They do not specialise particularly, and you will not be in the position to pick and choose.

4. As I have said before, I never care what paperwork you have, I want to see what you have done to time and budget and whether or not you have done something aligned to the job in hand (I realise a good PM can do anything, but the permies of this world don't understand that). If I take on a freelance PM I need to know that I can send them off to do something and it will be done proerly: that means I want to see people that have run whole projects, not that have been involved in other people's ones. You can only sell experience as a freelance - there are too many people out there with all the qualifications and no ability!

That may be all well and good in your line of work and I agree to certain extent, to be a good PM you need to have strong initiative, a pro active approach and be able to get things done quickly and under your own steam. BUT some companies insist on the relevent processes to be followed and reports etc produced. Their is no doubt in my mind that adopting certain PRINCE principles is beneficial but to use the whole lot would be both cumbersome and add little value to all but the largest of projects. Prince is essentially common sense that most PMs use anyway.

Whatever, best of luck - you may need it!

**malvolio** · 4 October 2005, 11:47

Following process is not about paper qualifications, it's about professionalism and processes that actually work in the real world. PRINCE (and Prince2, come to that) is scalable and you can use some or all of it, with the proviso you actually need to know all of it so you can make a judgement about what is or isn't needed. Contractors don't have careers, you're judged on what you can do.

As to my line of work - that's about 34 years IT, 15 in Service Management, real-world ITIL implementations and senior programme management - right know I'm in the middle of a $200m Europe-wide datcentre migration - so I'll hold my experience up against yours any day.

Anyway, speaking as someone who manages PMs these days, I was trying to answer your original question and give you a heads up on the different attitudes you will encounter in the contractor world. This is the third time this year I've tried to answer the "How do I get to be a contrator PM" question and they always know more than me. You don't want to listen, then go ahead....

**voron** · 4 October 2005, 12:11

In the public sector, having a paper certification certainly helps, and clients are increasingly insisting on it. So if you have this and fancy a jaunt in government, you will have an advantage. Of course, this does not make someone a good manager, but the client thinks so and that's what counts.

**ratewhore** · 4 October 2005, 12:13

Originally posted by malvolio

This is the third time this year I've tried to answer the "How do I get to be a contrator PM" question

To be fair, that's not very many times is it?

**malvolio** · 4 October 2005, 12:19

Voron -

I've done recent work for both MOD and DCA, so I accept the difference in viewpoint. And to be fair it helps to have paperwork to get you noticed if you have no freelance history

Ratewhore -

No it's not, although I get the same questions in other places

It's the 100% hit rate on people arguing the advice is the issue - if they're know that much about something they've never tried to do, why are they asking us in the first place!

Ignore me - I'm having a grumpy day. I've been sat on a Change Board for three hours now and am losing the will to live....

**voron** · 4 October 2005, 12:27

Originally posted by malvolio

I've done recent work for both MOD and DCA, so I accept the difference in viewpoint. And to be fair it helps to have paperwork to get you noticed if you have no freelance history

I happen to agree with you on the certification issue. My current client has more certified Prince 'experts' than you could shake a stick at, but none of them understand the first thing about project management. However, for whatever reason clients in the public sector believe having certification is the be all and end all. I suspect it's to do with ticking boxes, so that when it all goes wrong the senior management can shrug their shoulders and exlaim, "not our fault, we hired experts!".

I've never worked with the MoD, but I know the DCA all too well. As the LCD they were a major stakeholder on a programme I did with the HO. I also know their new head of programme management. God help us all.

**ratewhore** · 4 October 2005, 12:36

Isn't it policy in Govt Depts to use Prince methodology for project management? If it has to be a PRINCE project then it makes sense to hire people who at least know the terminology and framework, hence, certified people. A good, experienced PM is a good, experienced PM whether they are managing a PRINCE project or not...

Project Management Recruitment Agencies?