Jobserve Gripes

[Peter Loew]

Anyone else experiencing issues with Jobserve? Another agent called me up this morning and said he received my application but with no CV attached.

That's happened a couple of times now and I wonder how many applications actually get through okay.

[McBainCo]

Phantom CV

.....and phantom jobs.

In my opinion very few jobs on Jobserve are real!
I do hope that this crisis will see the extinction of the estate agents and the employment agents.
About time too!

[jmo21]

there was a thread on this recently wasn't there?

I agree with McBain!

[ratewhore]

It's a very simple thing to work out the pimps direct email address and send it to them...

[tim123]

It's a very simple thing to work out the pimps direct email address

not always

tim

[McBainCo]

I operate in the Insurance sector, as a BA or PM.
This is how I decide whether it is a real job or no.

1. I look at the agency ( some are really notorious at fishing) and alleged client(s) ( they all claim to be working for Capita or Windsor Life). None of the migration BA roles you see adverised are real ( so that rules out Bristol and Birmingham agencies).
2. I follow development in the financial sector: e.g the acquisition of Clerical by Widows will create a few opportunities. With that anticipation in mind Agencies start advertising for standard profiles ( Programme mgr, Business Analyst, Business Transformation Mgr, etc). They hope to place these people, but at the time of advertising the roles did not exist
3. I use my network of contractors on site to give me additional info.
4. I use alos my knowledge of the market, e.g any agencies that is advertising an AIG (a company verging on bankrupcy) contrat in the UK is clearly either misleading or being misled.

I have a list of names of agencies and agents and the tricks they play.

This is an article that we compiled about 6 years ago on the this very same site. Worth reading.

Many unwary contractors, and even some very wary ones, have been caught out by some very devious agency tricks. To be forewarned is to be forearmed though. Here are ten agency tricks that you should look out for.


1. They phone you up saying that they have several jobs that you are suitable for. They need you, however, first to supply them with references. Is this true? No, it isn’t. They do not have any jobs for you. They are just trying to find out people who take on contractors and want to know the names and phone numbers of your old bosses.

2. They’ll say, “Who did you work for at BT. Was it Graham Sutherland”? “No”, you say. “It was John Salisbury”. Now the agent has a contact at your old firm that they can call up to ask him if he is looking for any contractors.

3. They post jobs on job boards that don’t exist. They are only trying to get themselves a number of extra CVs to increase their own database. When you send in your CV, they’ll say that the job is gone. Or they suggest you give them referees ( that they will immediately call asking whether they are recruiting)

4. They’ll ask you, “Tell us what companies that your CV has already been sent out to, so that we don’t make the mistake of sending your CV there again, which could cost you a job interview”. If you tell them, then they now know what companies are looking for contractors, and they can then put some other candidates up in opposition to you. Don’t think they wouldn’t.

5. When they are asking you what your rate for the job is they might say, “What’s your bottom line? What’s the least that you would take to get a job? Obviously we will try to get as much as we can for you”. No they won’t. Your bottom line now becomes the most you’ll get for any job. They’ll still try and get as much as they can from the client, but they’ll keep any extra they can get for themselves. How many people have actually heard from an agent “We’ve managed to get you a higher rate than you were asking for?”

6. They’ll put a clause in your contract that they and the client company can terminate you with a month’s (or a week’s) notice, but that you have no notice period with them.

7. If you get a job interview through them, they’ll tell you that they’ll call you back when they have any news. What they mean is that if there is good news, they will be on the line pronto to try and get you to sign up straight away in case you take another job. If it’s bad news, they won’t call you, and they’ll be ‘not around’ when you call in. They’ll give you the bad news eventually but only after several attempts to get hold of them.

8. When you don’t get the job for an interview that they sent you to, they’ll say they’ll look for other jobs for you, but they won’t. They’ll quietly drop you. They don’t like people who don’t pass interviews for them.

9. They tell you that if you introduce them to another contractor that they get a job for, they’ll pay you 250 or 500 quid. They will if you find out about it. They won’t contact you, unless you call up asking for it. If they get this person a job three months down the line or a couple of years down the line, there’s no chance at all of them sending you a cheque out of the blue, even though the finder’s name (your’s) will be on their database.

10. Once they’ve got you a job, they may say that they weren’t able to get you the rate that you wanted – that the client will only pay 5% or 10% less. This is rubbish. They told the company what your rate was initially and the company accepted it. The agency are now just trying to help themselves to an extra bit of commission for a job that is safely in their pockets. Don’t fall for it. Tell them that the client can forget it then, and see how quickly the agent changes tack. They don’t want to lose surefire money.

11. Contracts advertised stating "Market rates". Whatever rate you go in with will always be "too high". Interestingly if all contractors go in asking for a rate that the client isn't willing to pay - what is the "market rate" - that of the seller or the buyer? According to agencies it's that of the buyer.
If a contractor breaks rank and sells themselves cheaply (as they need the money or believe the "market rates" story) then that low rate becomes market rate. If however everyone holds out for the right rates then the market rate has to rise to that at which contractors will do the work. Oddly enough if you hold out on the rates, strangely the client often becomes interested (as you have the skills) and they will often happily pay the proper rate (as often they rely on the agency).

12. I discovered this agency trick only because I had a friend working for the clients’ company that I was supposedly applying to for a contract. I sent my CV to an agency who subsequently called me to say that he would put my CV forward to the client. Other agencies contacted me regarding the same contract position, however I told them that my CV had been forwarded by the first agent.
To cut a long story short, the first agent had already sent his limit of three CVs to the client but not mine. He had used Jobserve to trawl for other CVs so he could prevent other candidates using other agents to apply for the contract. The agent was not available comment for weeks after the event

13. They try to do is to pump you for information about jobs you're going to and then call the client to sabotage your interview .

There are many good agencies around of course, and the good ones like the dodgy ones even less than you do. They get their industry a bad name, spoil their relationship with contractors, and take their business through unfair means.

Don’t let them do it

[AZZIK]

I operate in the Insurance sector, as a BA or PM.
This is how I decide whether it is a real job or no.

1. I look at the agency ( some are really notorious at fishing) and alleged client(s) ( they all claim to be working for Capita or Windsor Life). None of the migration BA roles you see adverised are real ( so that rules out Bristol and Birmingham agencies).
2. I follow development in the financial sector: e.g the acquisition of Clerical by Widows will create a few opportunities. With that anticipation in mind Agencies start advertising for standard profiles ( Programme mgr, Business Analyst, Business Transformation Mgr, etc). They hope to place these people, but at the time of advertising the roles did not exist
3. I use my network of contractors on site to give me additional info.
4. I use alos my knowledge of the market, e.g any agencies that is advertising an AIG (a company verging on bankrupcy) contrat in the UK is clearly either misleading or being misled.

I have a list of names of agencies and agents and the tricks they play.

This is an article that we compiled about 6 years ago on the this very same site. Worth reading.

Many unwary contractors, and even some very wary ones, have been caught out by some very devious agency tricks. To be forewarned is to be forearmed though. Here are ten agency tricks that you should look out for.


1. They phone you up saying that they have several jobs that you are suitable for. They need you, however, first to supply them with references. Is this true? No, it isn’t. They do not have any jobs for you. They are just trying to find out people who take on contractors and want to know the names and phone numbers of your old bosses.

2. They’ll say, “Who did you work for at BT. Was it Graham Sutherland”? “No”, you say. “It was John Salisbury”. Now the agent has a contact at your old firm that they can call up to ask him if he is looking for any contractors.

3. They post jobs on job boards that don’t exist. They are only trying to get themselves a number of extra CVs to increase their own database. When you send in your CV, they’ll say that the job is gone. Or they suggest you give them referees ( that they will immediately call asking whether they are recruiting)

4. They’ll ask you, “Tell us what companies that your CV has already been sent out to, so that we don’t make the mistake of sending your CV there again, which could cost you a job interview”. If you tell them, then they now know what companies are looking for contractors, and they can then put some other candidates up in opposition to you. Don’t think they wouldn’t.

5. When they are asking you what your rate for the job is they might say, “What’s your bottom line? What’s the least that you would take to get a job? Obviously we will try to get as much as we can for you”. No they won’t. Your bottom line now becomes the most you’ll get for any job. They’ll still try and get as much as they can from the client, but they’ll keep any extra they can get for themselves. How many people have actually heard from an agent “We’ve managed to get you a higher rate than you were asking for?”

6. They’ll put a clause in your contract that they and the client company can terminate you with a month’s (or a week’s) notice, but that you have no notice period with them.

7. If you get a job interview through them, they’ll tell you that they’ll call you back when they have any news. What they mean is that if there is good news, they will be on the line pronto to try and get you to sign up straight away in case you take another job. If it’s bad news, they won’t call you, and they’ll be ‘not around’ when you call in. They’ll give you the bad news eventually but only after several attempts to get hold of them.

8. When you don’t get the job for an interview that they sent you to, they’ll say they’ll look for other jobs for you, but they won’t. They’ll quietly drop you. They don’t like people who don’t pass interviews for them.

9. They tell you that if you introduce them to another contractor that they get a job for, they’ll pay you 250 or 500 quid. They will if you find out about it. They won’t contact you, unless you call up asking for it. If they get this person a job three months down the line or a couple of years down the line, there’s no chance at all of them sending you a cheque out of the blue, even though the finder’s name (your’s) will be on their database.

10. Once they’ve got you a job, they may say that they weren’t able to get you the rate that you wanted – that the client will only pay 5% or 10% less. This is rubbish. They told the company what your rate was initially and the company accepted it. The agency are now just trying to help themselves to an extra bit of commission for a job that is safely in their pockets. Don’t fall for it. Tell them that the client can forget it then, and see how quickly the agent changes tack. They don’t want to lose surefire money.

11. Contracts advertised stating "Market rates". Whatever rate you go in with will always be "too high". Interestingly if all contractors go in asking for a rate that the client isn't willing to pay - what is the "market rate" - that of the seller or the buyer? According to agencies it's that of the buyer.
If a contractor breaks rank and sells themselves cheaply (as they need the money or believe the "market rates" story) then that low rate becomes market rate. If however everyone holds out for the right rates then the market rate has to rise to that at which contractors will do the work. Oddly enough if you hold out on the rates, strangely the client often becomes interested (as you have the skills) and they will often happily pay the proper rate (as often they rely on the agency).

12. I discovered this agency trick only because I had a friend working for the clients’ company that I was supposedly applying to for a contract. I sent my CV to an agency who subsequently called me to say that he would put my CV forward to the client. Other agencies contacted me regarding the same contract position, however I told them that my CV had been forwarded by the first agent.
To cut a long story short, the first agent had already sent his limit of three CVs to the client but not mine. He had used Jobserve to trawl for other CVs so he could prevent other candidates using other agents to apply for the contract. The agent was not available comment for weeks after the event

13. They try to do is to pump you for information about jobs you're going to and then call the client to sabotage your interview .

There are many good agencies around of course, and the good ones like the dodgy ones even less than you do. They get their industry a bad name, spoil their relationship with contractors, and take their business through unfair means.

Don’t let them do it

Erm OK....

[Robinho]

Just to resurrects this from the dead.

With point 5, about the rate, what's the correct reponse? A pimp just tried this on me now. I keep a list of all my jobs i've applied for for reference, but you often don't get time to look for them to have the details to hand when they ring.

I replied "what's the range for this role?". He responded and i said that's ok. Thought i'd done alright here but then the penis asked me what my previous rate was. My previous job was relatively low as it was my first contract job, though i was happy with it. Unfortunately i folded here as i couldn't think quick enough.

I usually take this as a sign that he doesn't really think i'm suitable for the role vs the other CVs he's got (only have 8 months contracting exp) and that he's just going to put me forward on the offchance i'll get lucky it at which point i would then in theory be a cash cow for him.

[Zippy]

I usually say "it depends on the role. Can you tell me a bit more about it? Do you have a job spec I can look at?". If they want to know the rate at your last client you can say that you signed a contract not to discuss rates with anyone. Or you could give the rate you want from them. They won't be able to find out if you are telling the truth or not (i.e. they'll be in the same position as you)

[Robinho]

Thanks

If hypothetically i were to be offered it for the rate i said ok to, would i be in any position of power to turn around and demand the minimum it was advertised for? I didn't mention it in the last post but when i verified it with my notes, what he said to me was actually 15% lower than what it was advertised for. I'm going to be cynical and presume the client wouldn't be seeing that 15% saving.