Progression towards Project Management...

[malvolio]

I'd be surprised if many experienced contractors would have any useful advice on how to become a project manager. The longer you work the more you realise that the boot is certainly not on the project manager's foot. They're often bullied by senior management and any practical skills they may have had to get them the job quickly become out-dated within a couple of years leaving them stuck.

Those who are gifted managers will avoid getting themselves pigeon-holed in project management.

If you bail out a couple of project managers by getting the job done for them then you find yourself in a much more satisfying position.

Don't give up and be a project manager, get good at something instead.

Ermm, crap. I'm a PM (mostly). I've been a contractor for 15 years. I've delivered three £100m+ programmes to time and budget. Most of the techies who "help" me out of difficult positions are the ones who got me into the difficult situation in the first place by ignoring due process and change management. If you got paid last week, it's because somewhere along the line a PM built the process to do it.

Stick to being a grunt. Let the grownups do the tricky bits. Don't confuse project managers in charge of one element of a programme (who are basically BAs with a calendar) with Project Managers who understand the whole picture and can make it happen

[Maca]

"due process and change management"

Where would we be without it?

[NickNick]

Don't give up and be a project manager, get good at something instead.

Whilst humourous in it's intent I'm sure, the above comment is one that I agree with completely. I'm an anlyst by trade and have been offered several chances to become a PM, but I just wouln't be any good at it. Starting things, yes, seeing things through to completion beyond the initial "what happens if..." phase, not my cuppa.

In the end, it all depends on what you would be happiest doing though. Coding or PM?

[Peter Loew]

Ermm, crap. I'm a PM (mostly). I've been a contractor for 15 years. I've delivered three £100m+ programmes to time and budget. Most of the techies who "help" me out of difficult positions are the ones who got me into the difficult situation in the first place by ignoring due process and change management. If you got paid last week, it's because somewhere along the line a PM built the process to do it.

Stick to being a grunt. Let the grownups do the tricky bits. Don't confuse project managers in charge of one element of a programme (who are basically BAs with a calendar) with Project Managers who understand the whole picture and can make it happen

I completely agree.

P

[Peter Loew]

You will oftentimes find that people who have a 1 sided view to project management tend to be more negative because they never fully understand the whole picture; or because they have tried their hand and failed miserably.

If I had a penny every time I heard someone complain that PMs 'don't do anything' I wouldn't need to keep contracting.

Ignorance is bliss to some on this board.

[beercohol]

I have to completely admit that I have existed in both camps.

When I was a pure developer (coder, grunt), I harboured the same attitude many coders do.

I learned my lesson when I became a PM... At least I thought I did.

Then I refined my learning even further. Nowadays I am very firmly in the camp that bad PMs bring it on themselves.

I see too many PMs take leave of their technical heritage and hide in their ivory towers, dishing out work packages. Of course developers don't respect them.

If its SDLC Project Management, stay current with the tech. It's the only way to retain the respect of your team.

I dish out work packages, but show I understand the techniques involved and can credibly insist on realistic deadlines (although I do openly show them my efforts in giving them a margin).

They can't pull the wool over my eyes, and I can't hide my loyalty to them. We get some amazing products out as a result!

The real skill, in my experience, is that a good PM must be visible and engaged with the team. Secondly and equally, it is a lot to do with bridging the tech/business divide. Almost all techs are apalling business people and vice versa. That's the gap we PMs fill.

.. or bleedin' well ought to.

[malvolio]

The real skill, in my experience, is that a good PM must be visible and engaged with the team. Secondly and equally, it is a lot to do with bridging the tech/business divide. Almost all techs are apalling business people and vice versa. That's the gap we PMs fill.

.. or bleedin' well ought to.

In other words, "all the soft skills of course, like people and time management". Now where did I see that recently...

[beercohol]

In other words, "all the soft skills of course, like people and time management". Now where did I see that recently...

No.

In other words, and far more important in the software development world, both.

[Maca]

It's a classic chicken and egg situation. Good project managers effectively get picked by good developers. If a project hasn't got enough developers then a good project manager will get his good developers to help find more developers.

Bad project managers inherit developers and have to 'trust' agencies to get developers.

You'll know if you've got the credentials to be a PM when your peers want you to represent them.

It's not about process, it's about teamwork.

On the subject of Config Management, have you seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 ?

[original PM]

I am a project manager (still learning!!) who does not come from a techncial background (I am mainly from Account Management and Customer Service alhtough I have limited understanding of technical issues)

The one point I can never understand is why there seems to be an insistence that PM should work in or come from an IT background.

Not all projects have any it development in them at all - although in this day this is becoming less common. In additon to this if a PM spends all the time on the techie side then the other sides, like training, process reviews, reporting needs, change management etc etc etc get left behind and you end up with a new system/software package that no one wants or can use.

I left one job due to the fact that the manager wanted me to effectively manage all the techie developers - regardless of whether they were working on a project I was running at the time - I refused to do her job.

In my new role I now have a guy from the IS/IT team who keeps me up to date on a weekly basis with where the developments involved in my project are up to.

I spend the vast majority of my time orgainising and communicating with the relevant different heads of department ensuring that they are all working in a coherent manner for the project (to an extent as long as the project is not put at risk they can do what the hell they want the rest of the time)
I suppose I do throw out work packages to these heads of departments and then then pass them down to the relevant team member who has the relevant skills.

I do not have all the skills to complete the work packages myself - I do however have the relevant skills to manage a project.

Anyway still learning and each day throws up some great probortunities