termination clause

[topgun]

In termination clause of my contract, it says

The Company may terminate the Agreement forthwith in the event that:
1. ..... for whatever reason.
2. .....
3. .....
.
.

Does it imply the client may terminate the contract immediately during contracting? or a notice of one month mentioned in other doc is literally useless?

[Ardesco]

There will always be an immeadiate termination clause hidden away somewhere (for gross misconduct for example).

If the client you are working for wants to get rid of you, they will find a way to do it quickly and without having to pay you any money.


That being said, it may be worthwhile checking what they have planned. They may only have 3 weeks work they need done quickly and are putting out a 6 month contract because nobody is willing to work for 3 weeks....

[Sockpuppet]

Bear in mind notice periods are not worth tulip.

They may cancel the contract at a months notice but so long as there is a good non MOO clause in there (which is something you want) then they will just ask you to go home.

If you are not working you don't get paid. Ok, the contract will still run for 4 weeks but you will not be on site to work it.

[backgetyou]

In termination clause of my contract, it says

The Company may terminate the Agreement forthwith in the event that:
1. ..... for whatever reason.
2. .....
3. .....
.
.

Does it imply the client may terminate the contract immediately during contracting? or a notice of one month mentioned in other doc is literally useless?

See the other thread I started. If there is ANY clause in your contract that will allow exclusion of your notice period remove it. The bottom line is you can be dropped via fabriacted reasons as this is what your contract states, it will be up to you that the clause is not valid if you leave it in. I have noticed many 'contractors' here do not really understand what they are signing and I even had comments like 'all agents do this'. The bottom line is that your contract is a legal agreement and your company/client is bound by the terms. Whether you should have a notice period is a question for you and your accountant but if you have one then you should be able to expect this as if its included with no benefit to you then I would suggest it is counter to your situation.

[malvolio]

See the other thread I started. If there is ANY clause in your contract that will allow exclusion of your notice period remove it. The bottom line is you can be dropped via fabriacted reasons as this is what your contract states, it will be up to you that the clause is not valid if you leave it in. I have noticed many 'contractors' here do not really understand what they are signing and I even had comments like 'all agents do this'. The bottom line is that your contract is a legal agreement and your company/client is bound by the terms. Whether you should have a notice period is a question for you and your accountant but if you have one then you should be able to expect this as if its included with no benefit to you then I would suggest it is counter to your situation.

Didn't really follow that argument too well, but if you have a guaranteed notice period, you do not have mutuality of obligation since there is a legal obligation on both sides whereby you can do chargeable time when there is actually no work for you to do. And where there is mutuality, there is IR35...

Notice periods are for permies. Contractors deliver results and leave, or don't and get dumped. It's why we charge more.

[backgetyou]

but so long as there is a good non MOO clause in there (which is something you want) then they will just ask you to go home.

If you are not working you don't get paid. Ok, the contract will still run for 4 weeks but you will not be on site to work it.

Firstly, you guys are getting far too caught up in contracts and IR35 they are just a pointer. If you have your own office, advertise, hold insurances not needed as a perm, are a member of a pro body, employ staff, risk finances on a contract such as buying gear or rental, use a solicitor and accountant to operate your business, take more than 3 months holiday, PURSUE debts, work on projects or work that pays only on completion etc etc then this one contractual pointer makes little difference. Trust me I spent a long time being investigated generally (not just IR35) and not one of my contracts was an issue. In fact the main issue I had was my expenses claimed but that is another matter and at the end of the day even this was found to conform.

I think if you still live with your mum, operate out of your bedroom, sign standard contracts with no understanding what you are signing, work in support the same as a permie using their equipment, wear an ID badge same as a permie and for all purposes work as a permie other than payment then I think you have much more to worry about if you ever get flagged.

You dont have to be onsite to be paid. This is rubbish, much of my work is offsite and much of my work is paid for when I dont do anything, if its booked its booked period. I get paid. I think the points that keep being raised show inexperience or perhaps just a different attitude to working for yourself.

[malvolio]

Firstly, you guys are getting far too caught up in contracts and IR35 they are just a pointer. If you have your own office, advertise, hold insurances not needed as a perm, are a member of a pro body, employ staff, risk finances on a contract such as buying gear or rental, use a solicitor and accountant to operate your business, take more than 3 months holiday, PURSUE debts, work on projects or work that pays only on completion etc etc then this one contractual pointer makes little difference. Trust me I spent a long time being investigated generally (not just IR35) and not one of my contracts was an issue. In fact the main issue I had was my expenses claimed but that is another matter and at the end of the day even this was found to conform.

I think if you still live with your mum, operate out of your bedroom, sign standard contracts with no understanding what you are signing, work in support the same as a permie using their equipment, wear an ID badge same as a permie and for all purposes work as a permie other than payment then I think you have much more to worry about if you ever get flagged.

You dont have to be onsite to be paid. This is rubbish, much of my work is offsite and much of my work is paid for when I dont do anything, if its booked its booked period. I get paid. I think the points that keep being raised show inexperience or perhaps just a different attitude to working for yourself.

Denny? Is that you...?

Incidentally, if you're getting paid for not working, you are caught by IR35, no matter what.

[Ardesco]

The other problem is fighting it if you are let go and you notice period is not paid.

Taking a company to court to get notice paid to you is a costly and tiem consuming experiance. There is also the chance that the judgement will not go your way.

Generally speaking a client is not going to drop you unless they are running out of money (in which case you may not get anything even if you do take them to court) or they really have nothing for you to do. If there is nothing for you to do why should you get paid?

I would expect most contracts to have a provision that if all of the work is completed they can get rid of you which is a perfectly sane and acceptible condition IMHO. With this in mind notice periods are meaningless.

[Sockpuppet]

You dont have to be onsite to be paid. This is rubbish, much of my work is offsite and much of my work is paid for when I dont do anything, if its booked its booked period. I get paid. I think the points that keep being raised show inexperience or perhaps just a different attitude to working for yourself.

I never said you had to be onsite to get paid.

I said "If you're not working you don't get paid".

I too have had contracts where I have worked from home, yet still got paid. Infact the majority of my work is field based where I see the "client" about once a week.

If you are billing for days you don't work I would expect HMRC to try and use that to beat more tax out of you. If you billed a fixed amount for the project then that would be fine but saying "I am going to bill you for one day even though I did nothing for your company" will be like a red flag to a bull.

[backgetyou]

If you are billing for days you don't work I would expect HMRC to try and use that to beat more tax out of you. If you billed a fixed amount for the project then that would be fine but saying "I am going to bill you for one day even though I did nothing for your company" will be like a red flag to a bull.

No it won't. If I am employed to perform a function for five days in Newcastle and I live in Liverpool. I drive all the way there book into my hotel and turn up at the agreed time but the client says sorry we cant do the work this week for this reason I am supposed to say dont worry I dont want the tax man chasing me we will call it quits.

Or I am employed to provide 6 weeks training on a clients site and I book this out, the client states they have an issue and it will start 24 hours late. I am still paid for the 24 hours at home. The inland Revenue will not give a stuff this is normal.

If I employ a serviceman and he turns up but cant do the work as I changed my mine he will charge a call out charge. For this all he will have done is turn up the call out charge can disproportiante but the IR wont say to him you are not self employed now as you got paid nor nowt. Get real, most tradesman try and get paid for nowt.

If my contract says that I am to be paid £1000 for each day I have one worker available for client x then I am paid £1000 for each day I keep them available because thats what the contract says. What makes you think that this changes the tax situation? Clearly you have no PM experience, you often have to pay a third party for sitting on their butts if a dependency is stalled. What if I work in support and I have no calls do you think you should not be paid?

The Inland Revenue would not even have a clue that you were being paid for not supplying anything unless you told them anyway. The Inland Revenue look at your whole working process and will only make deeper investigations if they see something wrong and that something has SIGNIFICANT value to it and the chances of recovery make it worth following up.