Opt in / Opt out - whats it all about?

[barry_abs]

i already met the client (interview), so by default i'm opted-in.. so why are the agency and umbrella encouraging me to opt-out?

this is the least clear of all the terms i've had to agree/state..

i'm not a Ltd. (anymore), i am under IR35, i just want my money and not to be handcuffed.. should i opt-in?

[TheFaQQer]

i already met the client (interview), so by default i'm opted-in.. so why are the agency and umbrella encouraging me to opt-out?

this is the least clear of all the terms i've had to agree/state..

i'm not a Ltd. (anymore), i am under IR35, i just want my money and not to be handcuffed.. should i opt-in?

You can't opt out now that you've met the client. No point discussing it further.

[The Lone Gunman]

There is still some debate as to the interpretation of "introduced"

Is it.
Miss B was introduced to Miss A (sorry moose). Which implies meeting for the first time.
Or is it
Substance A was introduced into the mixture. Which implies actualy being placed at the clients site.

**This may have been resolved.
I am not qualified to give this advice.

[TheFaQQer]

There is still some debate as to the interpretation of "introduced"

Is it.
Miss B was introduced to Miss A (sorry moose). Which implies meeting for the first time.
Or is it
Substance A was introduced into the mixture. Which implies actualy being placed at the clients site.

**This may have been resolved.
I am not qualified to give this advice.

The act says "either introduced to the client or has started work" or something like that. The implication being that an interview / meeting is an introduction, otherwise there would be no need to have the "either / or" part of the wording.

CP have argued with me before that you can opt out up until you start work, as it says "OR" but they don't understand the word "EITHER" beforehand.

[TheFaQQer]

i already met the client (interview), so by default i'm opted-in.. so why are the agency and umbrella encouraging me to opt-out?

this is the least clear of all the terms i've had to agree/state..

i'm not a Ltd. (anymore), i am under IR35, i just want my money and not to be handcuffed.. should i opt-in?

If you are going through an umbrella, and you've already got the gig, then there is no advantage to you of opting out.

[barry_abs]

If you are going through an umbrella, and you've already got the gig, then there is no advantage to you of opting out.

i am going through an umbrella, i do already got the gig, i did opt-out - coz the agency and umbrella leant on me to do so, not because i have a clue what i'm doing..

[malvolio]

The act says "either introduced to the client or has started work" or something like that. The implication being that an interview / meeting is an introduction, otherwise there would be no need to have the "either / or" part of the wording.

CP have argued with me before that you can opt out up until you start work, as it says "OR" but they don't understand the word "EITHER" beforehand.

The intention of that bit of the regs is to allow for both the usual contractor interview approach and the temp from Office Angels who is simply told to turn up at Cuthbert and Dibble on Monday morning (and who is actually the person the regs are aimed at...).

General interpretation is your first offical contact with the client, which for most of us is the interview stage. Once you're past that, you can't opt out. That's why you send an opt out letter with your original application.

Incidentally never ever believe any interpretation provided by CP. They don't even understand VAT accounting.

[johhnysalad]

The act says "either introduced to the client or has started work" or something like that. The implication being that an interview / meeting is an introduction, otherwise there would be no need to have the "either / or" part of the wording.

The PCG has IMHO one of the best guides to agency regs (members only).

The opt-out for which PCG lobbied is covered in paragraph (9) of Clause 32 and reads as follows:

“(9) Subject to paragraph (12), paragraphs (1) - (8) shall not apply where a work-seeker which is a company, and the person who is or would be supplied by that work-seeker to carry out the work, agree that they should not apply, and give notice of that agreement to an employment business or agency, provided that such notice is given before the introduction or supply of the work-seeker or the person who would be supplied by the work-seeker to do the work, to the hirer.”


No mention of "either" there . It also goes on to say;

... it is a contravention of the Act for any agency to require you to opt out of the Agency Regulations. It may also be illegal for them to pressure you to do so by threatening not to put forward your CV.

.... the “opt out” must take place before you are introduced to the client. In most cases, therefore, this means that it must take the form of a letter from you to the agency. It cannot form part of the contract, as you will already have been introduced to the client before you sign any contracts.

The guidance generally appears to be that if your contract is IN IR35, opt-in, if its OUT, opt-out. However, as has been suggested here, by the time you interview, if you've not opt-ed out you have by default opted-in.

Clear as mud.....

[mailric]

clear as mud. i'm going to head to PCG as advised.

i've understood everything up to now, but this does jusn't (yet) make any sense!

i didn't think i was that stupid until now

[Ashwin2007]

However, as has been suggested here, by the time you interview, if you've not opt-ed out you have by default opted-in.

Clear as mud.....

The interview is never mentioned in any of the contract document. So nobody may know if the interview has ever taken place. Then why is the interview considered so important for opt-out considerations?