Spoken to Prosperity4 Administrators

[Splodge]

Finance company causes the problem?????

Way back in this thread it was stated by the Administrator that P4 had had a big fall-out with their finance co and I suspect this of being a factoring or invoice discounting company. I fully understand why an agency needs a factor, they pay out in a very short period and then hope to get paid by their client against a timesheet within 30 - 60 - 90 days+.

However, an umbrella company (mostly) pays their contractors on receipt of cleared funds from the agency, minus their fee, PAYE, NI (employers & employees) in P4's case 5% holiday pay retention etc. if the company were viable and solvent they should be living off their fee income and no more with PAYE NI & holiday pay in an escrow account. Why on earth did they need a finance company to cover invoices? It should be a self funding, cash generative, permanent cash rich situation.

If the finance co demanded their money back quickly they must have realised that P4 was overspending and using money that wasn't theirs to use.

Ignore profit, it cash that counts and they should be months ahead of the game in cash terms given that the effectively retain about £400+ in every thousand that goes through their account, I'm sure the Administrators can see shed loads of money in the business on paper, question is where's the cash?

[KeithRatcliff]

contacts

In this discussion people have mentioned talking to the Administrators and talking to P4.
Who are the administrators?
I just get put through to voicemail when I try to call P4, what numbers are you using?

[simondolan]

Last year P4 spent £2m on an ad campaign:

http://www.propaganda.co.uk/news/pre...-06/060503.php

At that point in time their published accounts showed nothing like £2m in terms of retained profits, so the campaign would have been funded by using cashflow reserves (PAYE/VAT/Holiday funds retained). Evidently the ad campaign did not have the desired results as P4 took out a mortgage in January 2007, and another one just recently in July 2007 (public knowledge via Co House)

These mortgages were secured on the assets of the Company - the debt book (or contractors work invoiced) being the main asset.

For whatever reason this finance company sound like they are calling in the debt and it remains to be seen whether P4 can pay - as the administrators have been called in I can only assume they had some trouble in doing so.

Way back in this thread it was stated by the Administrator that P4 had had a big fall-out with their finance co and I suspect this of being a factoring or invoice discounting company. I fully understand why an agency needs a factor, they pay out in a very short period and then hope to get paid by their client against a timesheet within 30 - 60 - 90 days+.

However, an umbrella company (mostly) pays their contractors on receipt of cleared funds from the agency, minus their fee, PAYE, NI (employers & employees) in P4's case 5% holiday pay retention etc. if the company were viable and solvent they should be living off their fee income and no more with PAYE NI & holiday pay in an escrow account. Why on earth did they need a finance company to cover invoices? It should be a self funding, cash generative, permanent cash rich situation.

If the finance co demanded their money back quickly they must have realised that P4 was overspending and using money that wasn't theirs to use.

Ignore profit, it cash that counts and they should be months ahead of the game in cash terms given that the effectively retain about £400+ in every thousand that goes through their account, I'm sure the Administrators can see shed loads of money in the business on paper, question is where's the cash?

[WindyAnna]

In this discussion people have mentioned talking to the Administrators and talking to P4.
Who are the administrators?
I just get put through to voicemail when I try to call P4, what numbers are you using?

I've posted the full details of administrators (Chantry Vellacott) somewhere but contacts I have been given are Richard Toone, Kevin Murphy and Kenneth Touhey - Telephone no. 020 7509 9255.

[WindyAnna]

E-mail from P4 administrators

Just after posting my last post I got an e-mail from the administrators .... here's the text of it .... Windy

You should have been made aware by your respective business manager that Richard Toone, Kevin Murphy and Kenneth Touhey of Chantrey Vellacott DFK LLP were appointed Joint Administrators of the company at 10.11am on 1 August 2007.
I attach a copy of Form 2.12B - Notice of administrator’s appointment confirming our appointment.
Under the provisions of the Enterprise Act 2002, the Joint Administrators have up to eight weeks to formulate their proposals for achieving the objectives of the administration. I will write to you again with our formal proposals as soon as possible.
In the meantime, the Joint Administrators objective in the first instance will be rescuing the company as a going concern. The company will continue to trade under the control of the Joint Administrators with the assistance of the team at P 4 with a view to achieving this objective.
By way of a brief update I would advise that the Joint Administrators have continued to pay the employees of the company in accordance with their contractual terms and since the start of the Administration we have paid over 250 contractors more than £225,000 in wages. Contact has also been made with the agencies and vast majority of whom have been extremely supportive and have committed to continue working with the company.
However, in order to achieve the objective of the Administration it is essential that amounts due to the company from the agencies are paid in a timely fashion which will ensure that sufficient funds are available to continue to pay the employees.
We look forward to your receiving your continued support of the company in this difficult time.
If you do have any enquiries I should be grateful if you would, in the first instance, contact your business manager at the company. If they are unable to deal with your enquiries please telephone 020 7509 9255. This will be dealt with as soon as possible by a member of the Joint Administrators’ staff.

[TheFaQQer]

We look forward to your receiving your continued support of the company in this difficult time.

I bet they do!

Not sure they'll be getting it from many people, though.

[max]

At that point in time their published accounts showed nothing like £2m in terms of retained profits, so the campaign would have been funded by using cashflow reserves (PAYE/VAT/Holiday funds retained). Evidently the ad campaign did not have the desired results as P4 took out a mortgage in January 2007, and another one just recently in July 2007 (public knowledge via Co House)

I hope they have enough to pay what they owe to HMRC...otherwise HMRC might go after P4's clients...

One positive is it's a get out of IR35 card, shows financial risk. Oh that's right...paye.

Oh what a web...

[SuziQ]

It now turns out that they haven't actually recieved my timesheet for my first week, and won't be paying me this week anyhow!!
SO .. if they haven't actually provided me with a service yet, then they can't charge me for one , surely?? Going home to find my contract....
Anyone have any idea what the notice period might be for P4?

[scooby]

It now turns out that they haven't actually recieved my timesheet for my first week, and won't be paying me this week anyhow!!
SO .. if they haven't actually provided me with a service yet, then they can't charge me for one , surely?? Going home to find my contract....
Anyone have any idea what the notice period might be for P4?

there isnt one i believe...

[sathyaram_s]

I'm afraid, there is very little you can decide ... The agency has to agree to pay you through a different umbrella, say ..

As P4 has not received a timesheet, if the agency is co-operative you are in luck .. P4(or its administrators) can claim money from the agency only if they have your timesheet ... If they do not have your timesheet, the agency need not pay for it ...

It now turns out that they haven't actually recieved my timesheet for my first week, and won't be paying me this week anyhow!!
SO .. if they haven't actually provided me with a service yet, then they can't charge me for one , surely?? Going home to find my contract....
Anyone have any idea what the notice period might be for P4?