IR35 - Done to Death...

**el duder** · 19 July 2007, 10:19

Originally posted by scon_ead

Hypothetical Question (sort of) which I don't think has been done before. I'll give as much detail as I can, might not all be relevant but might help. So apols if it's long winded but you've got nothing better to do...

My last role was a permy position (approx 9 months) which I left to go contracting

. Have been contracting for 2 years + 3 months, all for the same Client (not sure if that's a good or bad thing but not complaining...top top rate!)

My old permy employer is looking to do some interviews to recruit both contractors/permies in the same area I work in (testing - if that matters). They never really replaced me when I left (obviously didn't get over the pain of me leaving...) and it's taken them this long to realise how crucial and important a testing function is within any organisation

which means they haven't really got anyone with suitable knowledge to conduct the interviews.

OK, don't want a lecture on this next statement from all the cold long term contractors but...I'm thinking I could suggest offering one day helping with the interviews etc for free - my guilt kicking in as I left them in the lurch after 9 months of them investing in me.

Would this help at all with IR35 if I get the assignment in writing/contract?

err. who cares. stop worrying about it.

**malvolio** · 19 July 2007, 10:22

Why would behaving in a non-business like manner - giving away your professional services for free - help you prove you were in business on your own account?

You've been gone long enough for Friday-to-Monday not to have any bearing, so sell them your skill and knowledge on a commercial basis though a direct B2B contract.

The whole idea is to earn income, not avoid tax, after all.

**scon_ead** · 19 July 2007, 10:26

El Duder,

I don't care and I'm not worrying about it...where did I say I'm worried about IR35? I'm simply interested in opinions and being educated further by these opinions.

You are obviously offended as this particular statement;

"So apols if it's long winded but you've got nothing better to do..."

Obviously refers to you! Get over it. I'll buy you a sprite if it means you'll chill out a bit...

**scon_ead** · 19 July 2007, 10:32

Originally posted by malvolio

Why would behaving in a non-business like manner - giving away your professional services for free - help you prove you were in business on your own account?

You've been gone long enough for Friday-to-Monday not to have any bearing, so sell them your skill and knowledge on a commercial basis though a direct B2B contract.

The whole idea is to earn income, not avoid tax, after all.

It's in my business plan as part of my marketing strategy? I've often heard of contracts stating something along the lines of you work with the client but if after day one they're not happy they can drop you and not have to pay for the days effort. Could be urban myth but again, another type of marketing?

**malvolio** · 19 July 2007, 10:36

Originally posted by scon_ead

It's in my business plan as part of my marketing strategy? I've often heard of contracts stating something along the lines of you work with the client but if after day one they're not happy they can drop you and not have to pay for the days effort. Could be urban myth but again, another type of marketing?

It's marketing effort if it (hopefully!) brings you more work that recovers the cost over time. If that's what you're doing then fine. That's different to doing a day or two at risk, which is something I would never, ever advocate for the earlier reasons.

**lukemg** · 19 July 2007, 10:41

You are right to think keeping good contacts can lead to offers of work. This is something I should have done but haven't really done well.
However, I would never offer to do it for free, either they value your input or not, it's not personal it's business. Instead I would suggest a rate comparable with the salary you were on at that company. Offer to assist, indicate you are keen to help, say you will only be looking for a reasonable rate (cheap to them as they save NI etc). Ball is in their court whether to take up the offer, either way your conscience can be clear.

**scon_ead** · 19 July 2007, 10:48

Cheers guys,

In my defence it was only hypothetical! I would say that I fundamentally agree with what you are saying regarding working for free etc and I understand that it's not good business sense long-term to offer this type of service.

But, as for the IR35 aspect of it - no relevance? Having 2 contracts at the same time surely shows I am a company?

**Old Greg** · 19 July 2007, 10:58

Originally posted by scon_ead

Cheers guys,

In my defence it was only hypothetical! I would say that I fundamentally agree with what you are saying regarding working for free etc and I understand that it's not good business sense long-term to offer this type of service.

But, as for the IR35 aspect of it - no relevance? Having 2 contracts at the same time surely shows I am a company?

Would having 2 part-time jobs prove you're not an employee? (I have no expertise at all in this BTW - it's just a question).

**Bigbird** · 19 July 2007, 23:30

Originally posted by scon_ead

But, as for the IR35 aspect of it - no relevance? Having 2 contracts at the same time surely shows I am a company?

No relevance at all.

Each contract would be subject to an individual IR35 test and would pass or fail on its own terms and working practices. The fact that you are doing them both at the same time makes no difference whatsoever.

IR35 - Done to Death...