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Perm employee looking to transition into the contracting world

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    #31
    Originally posted by JackD View Post

    I haven’t made out I think I’m great… or I haven’t meant to. Obviously anything can happen and it’ll be my first role contracting.

    I’ve just put my name forward for a role at ~£650 a day… Ill see what comes from that application.
    If you are confident you can get £650, then there is a good chance you can get £800 for a bigger or more desperate client.

    Don't be afraid to apply for high flying jobs also. Especially if your presentation skills are strong. Often you are being hired as the expert, and there will be no one competent to grill you technically.

    And if you fail the high flying interview? Who cares. You'll have a better idea of the gap in your skillset you need to fill to get the big bucks in future.

    Don't listen to 10K posting desk jockeys and forum clowns telling you to accept £500 a day. (Those posters will self-identify in the replies)

    Comment


      #32
      Thanks for all the answers - I have an interview on Tuesday for an Inside role using an Umbrella.

      Not sure if I’ll take the role if offered, but it’s for a large consultancy, I’m unsure who the end client would be for the initial 6 month contract.

      It’s a step down in terms of role from what I’m doing at the moment, I’m currently in a Lead role with both technical and managerial responsibilities, but ideally I’d like to drop the latter so could be a good fit.

      Also the day rate after tax/umbrella etc seems to be double what I currently get as a perm!

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by JackD View Post
        It’s a step down in terms of role from what I’m doing at the moment, I’m currently in a Lead role with both technical and managerial responsibilities, but ideally I’d like to drop the latter so could be a good fit.
        A little saying in the contractor world is 'You are only as good as your last gig'. Agents will often just scan the last role and make a decision based on that. They don't read in to your CV to paint a bigger picture. If you take a lesser role just to get in there is a strong change you'll be pigeon holed as that. Be very careful taking lesser gigs because it could easily have a knock on effect.
        Also the day rate after tax/umbrella etc seems to be double what I currently get as a perm!
        You've said this numerous times now but you, as most perms do, are missing some key info.
        • You are likely to be out of work a few weeks a year. It's possible you could be out for months. No income at all. You will only get paid twice as much if you manage to get 12 months billing.
        • You get paid for holidays as a perm as well as all the benefits. I am sure you are looking at the bottom line cash which most usually do and forget the benefits. Pension, holidays, sick etc.
        • You cannot live month to month and spunk all the money as it comes in. When you finish the gig you'll have no income. You need to build a warchest of savings to cover the months you'll be out. You need to do this from day one as you could be out next day, week, month. The first three months in a gig you should be the poorest you've ever been. Every spare penny you can spare must go in to the war chest until you have 6+ months of the money you need to live. And being paid personally you've got to be very regimented in your savings. I've seen grown men literally crying when they got binned on a 'safe' long gig and didn't have any savings behind them. We've also a number of examples on here that some people saw the warchest as a savings pot when they needed it and spent it on house improvements and in one case got canned very shortly afterwards.
        • Linked to the above, another saying is 'The second gig is hardest to get'. Easy to sit there being paid looking for roles and taking them as you see fit. Once you are in you don't have that safety blanket. You'll have zero income until you find your second role and you are still up against very experience contracts so have a disadvantage. If you don't have the confidence or savings to dovetail the second, third and so on gig, its going to be difficult.
        You can't just keep looking at the bottom line and say 'I get paid twice as much as perm'. It's simply not true.
        Last edited by northernladuk; 14 January 2022, 14:49.
        'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by JackD View Post
          Hi All,

          Appreciate any help and advice you can provide - I work in Information/Cyber Security and have always had permanent roles so far. I’ve always been curious about contracting and obviously the day rates are extremely appealing! I’m planning on uprooting to London in the near future, so this is a perfect time for me to take the leap.

          I’m inundated with recruiters sending me roles on LinkedIn - but these are all perm roles as that’s the field I’m currently in, I don’t have much of a network in the contracting world, so my first question is, where’s best to find contracts? I specialise in Incident Response and Security Operations. Please can people recommend sites or recruiters they know of.

          Secondly, I’m slightly naive on the IR35 inside/outside, but I think I have a good basic grasp now. In terms of setting up my own ltd company for outside - what’s required? What should I be prepared for?

          Also, any other nuggets of wisdom you can share with me would be much appreciated!

          Thanks all
          In addition to looking at the first timers guide, i'd suggest speaking to an accountant to get tax advise. Visit below sticky topic for recommended accountants.

          https://forums.contractoruk.com/acco...-requests.html

          Comment


            #35
            Hate to agree with NLUK on something, but yes, the bottom line is it's totally non comparable between perm and contract. Your perm role carries a lot of hidden costs that you never see, adding roughly 100% to your gross salary. Plus now you get paid 52 weeks a year whereas over a 25 year contracting career I averaged 8 months a year - or 32 weeks - getting paid for working. You may be lucky and get a 12 month gig, but it would be foolish to budget on that happening. Even if it does, take a holiday, go sick, don't work bank holidays and two weeks forced break over Christmas and you're already down on your comfortable permie income. Then add on pension provision and the fact you're paying taxes and levies you've never thought of before and it all adds up.

            There's a reason the rough rule of thumb is (salary/1000 = hourly rate) that you may see quoted; that gives very roughly the same net pay in your pocket for comparison.

            I'm not saying don't do it, just be very aware that income is not guaranteed, and you may be away from home for long periods. Make sure the family knows that.
            Blog? What blog...?

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by malvolio View Post
              Hate to agree with NLUK on something,
              Huh? Why? We never disagree really. Just give two different perspectives which generally are both valid. You are a senior bod and I'm just a bum on seat contractor (apparently) so will have two different views on most general topics.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

                Huh? Why? We never disagree really. Just give two different perspectives which generally are both valid. You are a senior bod and I'm just a bum on seat contractor (apparently) so will have two different views on most general topics.
                True - but I'm the original GOG* around here, so I have standards to maintain....



                * Grumpy Old Git - which is what it says on my T-shirt...
                Blog? What blog...?

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

                  A little saying in the contractor world is 'You are only as good as your last gig'. Agents will often just scan the last role and make a decision based on that. They don't read in to your CV to paint a bigger picture. If you take a lesser role just to get in there is a strong change you'll be pigeon holed as that. Be very careful taking lesser gigs because it could easily have a knock on effect.


                  You've said this numerous times now but you, as most perms do, are missing some key info.
                  • You are likely to be out of work a few weeks a year. It's possible you could be out for months. No income at all. You will only get paid twice as much if you manage to get 12 months billing.
                  • You get paid for holidays as a perm as well as all the benefits. I am sure you are looking at the bottom line cash which most usually do and forget the benefits. Pension, holidays, sick etc.
                  • You cannot live month to month and spunk all the money as it comes in. When you finish the gig you'll have no income. You need to build a warchest of savings to cover the months you'll be out. You need to do this from day one as you could be out next day, week, month. The first three months in a gig you should be the poorest you've ever been. Every spare penny you can spare must go in to the war chest until you have 6+ months of the money you need to live. And being paid personally you've got to be very regimented in your savings. I've seen grown men literally crying when they got binned on a 'safe' long gig and didn't have any savings behind them. We've also a number of examples on here that some people saw the warchest as a savings pot when they needed it and spent it on house improvements and in one case got canned very shortly afterwards.
                  • Linked to the above, another saying is 'The second gig is hardest to get'. Easy to sit there being paid looking for roles and taking them as you see fit. Once you are in you don't have that safety blanket. You'll have zero income until you find your second role and you are still up against very experience contracts so have a disadvantage. If you don't have the confidence or savings to dovetail the second, third and so on gig, its going to be difficult.
                  You can't just keep looking at the bottom line and say 'I get paid twice as much as perm'. It's simply not true.
                  thanks, I appreciate that, tbh I am going into it assuming I’d be working say 11 months of the year. There seems to be a lot of roles out there and real demand for people to fill gaps in cyber at the moment.

                  I know anything can happen and get let go on short notice, it sounds like the contracting world is fast paced though, so your next role is only ~2 weeks away from interview to being in position?

                  Rough maths - I’d need to be working almost 7 months of the year to break even (6 would be more than I currently make, but add an extra month on to make up for the leave / pension etc). I could be being wildly optimistic, but I doubt I’d be out of a role for half the year? Is that common in contracting, even for those who are actively looking?

                  What field / roles are you in?

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by malvolio View Post

                    True - but I'm the original GOG* around here, so I have standards to maintain....



                    * Grumpy Old Git - which is what it says on my T-shirt...
                    And you wear it with aplomb sir.
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by JackD View Post

                      thanks, I appreciate that, tbh I am going into it assuming I’d be working say 11 months of the year. There seems to be a lot of roles out there and real demand for people to fill gaps in cyber at the moment.

                      I know anything can happen and get let go on short notice, it sounds like the contracting world is fast paced though, so your next role is only ~2 weeks away from interview to being in position?

                      Rough maths - I’d need to be working almost 7 months of the year to break even (6 would be more than I currently make, but add an extra month on to make up for the leave / pension etc). I could be being wildly optimistic, but I doubt I’d be out of a role for half the year? Is that common in contracting, even for those who are actively looking?

                      What field / roles are you in?
                      As long as you've considered it and can cover the worst.
                      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                      Comment

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