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Agency - Working woutout a Contract/IR35 backlog?

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    #21
    Lol. Well the sequence is an agency placing a contractor with an end client after April 6 and expecting them to start working without signed contracts in place, citing that "300 other contracts" needed to go through IR35 compliance checks. Contracts rapidly produced if contractor might walk. Huge amounts of new legalese in the small print about IR35 investigations. Then queries about who should provide SDS and unclear whether the hmrc assessment was done by end client or the agency. Contractor has to assess if the role is IR35 in or out themselves and just go with what you can glean.
    Thankfully a short engagement. Lovely end client team and project are the plus points.

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      #22
      Originally posted by GalContractor2873 View Post
      Lol. Well the sequence is an agency placing a contractor with an end client after April 6 and expecting them to start working without signed contracts in place, citing that "300 other contracts" needed to go through IR35 compliance checks. Contracts rapidly produced if contractor might walk. Huge amounts of new legalese in the small print about IR35 investigations. Then queries about who should provide SDS and unclear whether the hmrc assessment was done by end client or the agency. Contractor has to assess if the role is IR35 in or out themselves and just go with what you can glean.
      Thankfully a short engagement. Lovely end client team and project are the plus points.
      But that is illegal and is fraught with problems. Shame you can't mention the parties in play here.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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        #23
        Yes. I don't want to be represented by these lot after this job ends.

        They put me forwards for another role which starts when the current one ends.

        Is it bad etiquette to let the end-client (who really want me) know that I'm unlikely to continue being represented by the agency (who put me forward) after my current gig ends. And say they wanted to engage me as an independent contractor, they were welcome to?..

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          #24
          Originally posted by GalContractor2873 View Post
          Is it bad etiquette to let the end-client (who really want me) know that I'm unlikely to continue being represented by the agency (who put me forward) after my current gig ends. And say they wanted to engage me as an independent contractor, they were welcome to?..
          I don't think it's bad etiquette, but you'll need to check for any kind of "handcuff" clause in your contract. Often there will be something to say that you can't work with that client for 6 months (or whatever) after the current contract ends, unless you use the same agent.

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            #25
            Originally posted by hobnob View Post

            I don't think it's bad etiquette, but you'll need to check for any kind of "handcuff" clause in your contract. Often there will be something to say that you can't work with that client for 6 months (or whatever) after the current contract ends, unless you use the same agent.
            What if it is a new client that the agent put me forward for? Am pretty certain I wont want to work with this agent ever again

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              #26
              Originally posted by GalContractor2873 View Post

              What if it is a new client that the agent put me forward for? Am pretty certain I wont want to work with this agent ever again
              No problems if it's a new client. The handcuff that hobnob mention is you cut the agent out with the current client. The agent is expecting commission for your placement and if you try cut that off by going direct or via another agency then they can sue for loss of income.
              'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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                #27
                Sorry to resurrect this. I am now on the second placement and this Agent (apparently with up to 550 of us working for them) is now issuing contracts (or project confirmations) without the need for signatures..on either side.
                The MD sent me an email saying how they were compliant but having been pushed by their recruitment staff to start work with no documents it doesn't feel like there is integrity much.

                They switched to just sending contractors a PDF and they just deleted the original clause of digital signatures and electronic timestamps in the project letter.

                Is this binding? Is it dodgy? It doesn't feel like it protects the contractor much. Any thoughts appreciated.

                Thanks, painfully, still working with the same agent.

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                  #28
                  I recieved this as the context for why they are no longer issuing contracts that are co-signed:


                  'As mentioned, we rely on deemed acceptance so no signature is required. This is the same logic behind you not having to sign each time you buy something from a shop – you are accepting by your actions.'

                  Any legally minded folk with a view?

                  The MD also asked their head of compliance to issue me with a co signed contract now.
                  Only after saying that the above doesn't protect Contractors in any way and that we would expect to have documentation before starting.
                  Last edited by GalContractor2873; 11 June 2021, 15:17.

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                    #29
                    Originally posted by GalContractor2873 View Post
                    I recieved this as the context for why they are no longer issuing contracts that are co-signed:


                    'As mentioned, we rely on deemed acceptance so no signature is required. This is the same logic behind you not having to sign each time you buy something from a shop – you are accepting by your actions.'

                    Any legally minded folk with a view?
                    This is correct. If you continue to work and they continue to pay you then a contract has formed that will have the same conditions as the last one signed.

                    It's a pretty piss poor way of doing things and makes it more complex should things go wrong but they are correct.

                    EDIT : I haven't read the whole thread again but are you inside or outside? Rolling contractors witout new SOW and signatures isn't great if you are supposed to be outside. Just rolling over with no new agreed and signed terms looks very bum on seat/part and parcel to me.
                    Last edited by northernladuk; 11 June 2021, 15:20.
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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                      #30
                      This is a brand new contract. New client. Same representative agency. It doesn't seem right that e.g. you've been working stacking shelves for Tesco.
                      Now they want you at M&S and have just given you a paper that says 'you're now there' without asking you to sign the conditions of the new role

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