Agency rates

[reformation]

I thought the contractor sends in their rate, the EB then considers that against what the client may realistically pay and then add a percentage on top. That way the EB are incentivised to get for us what we need and want and to ensure the client gets the best the market has to offer.

At least that's what I hoped happens. However, I think the other scenario at the top is more likely.

If the agents are professional then you're right Deny this is how it works, but also lets not forget there is a rogue element amongst contractors telling fibs on their CV's and quoting rates hundreds of pounds above their true value. So please dont everyone point fingers at agents, if you dont like the person you're dealing with then terminate the call, the market is bouyant so vote with your feet and go elsewhere. You know who the tulip agents are out there so dont apply for a job with them and if you do if you dont get the client name in the first call then walk.

[Sockpuppet]

Just to dig this back up but in my new role I've just come accross an anomaly.

I am responsible for the budgets for the "project management team" which basically means that they ask me to see how much the workstream leaders are costing (also I get to know how much people get paid and its a fair whack..suprising is that I am at the top of that (with the agency margin on there)).

This mean I know to the penny what they are charging the client and I know what I am getting charged out at.... this is going to be fun come contract renewal time

Them: "The client wont pay that...."
Me: "You're already on a £100 a day commission....take it out of your cut"
Them: "Now were not"
Me: "Ahem"

[abc]

All contractors would benefit by having the agency margin known, because it would give contractors a sensible way of choosing between the agencies that try to be fair, and the cowboy agencies, that frankly have contempt for contractors. We all want the fair agencies to succeed don't we?

The rate that contractors get is subject to market forces - the ups and downs in demand from clients and what they will pay in TOTAL to take on a contractor. Market forces apply to contractors, so why not to agencies? Why should agencies get to hide what they charge?

If agencies want to hide what they charge, does anyone think this due to shyness or some other harmless factor? NO, it is a good bet that it's because they are ripping you off with a high margin.

Would you write a blank cheque at the supermarket, trusting that they will not overcharge you? So why would you trust some ex used car salesman, that you have never even met, working as an agent?

[youngguy]

This has really open my eyes.

I have just started out and have set my own day rate (well below market rate) with agencies which is a figure I believe to be fair (fair for someone of my experience in my sector). I purposely set it that bit lower for 2 reasons:-

-Its a figure I believe I am worth
-I want to get started in contracting and therefore wanted to 'undercut' more expensive contractors.

By the sounds of it, it is quite possible that agents are licking their lips as they have a massive markup on me, and clients are scratching their heads wondering why someone with less than average experience is charging average market rates.

Both of these do me no good at all!

My question is, apart from asking the agent, how can one find out the rate and how do you negotiate that rate down?

[Bluebird]

YG, I would go for Market Rate every time, unkess you have no experience what-so-ever.

Most posts these days are advertised with a day rate in mind, say you're happy with that.

[DodgyAgent]

All contractors would benefit by having the agency margin known, because it would give contractors a sensible way of choosing between the agencies that try to be fair, and the cowboy agencies, that frankly have contempt for contractors. We all want the fair agencies to succeed don't we?

The rate that contractors get is subject to market forces - the ups and downs in demand from clients and what they will pay in TOTAL to take on a contractor. Market forces apply to contractors, so why not to agencies? Why should agencies get to hide what they charge?

If agencies want to hide what they charge, does anyone think this due to shyness or some other harmless factor? NO, it is a good bet that it's because they are ripping you off with a high margin.

Would you write a blank cheque at the supermarket, trusting that they will not overcharge you? So why would you trust some ex used car salesman, that you have never even met, working as an agent?

It is a good point that you make but please do not use that word "fair" . It is a dreadful word that is used to gloss over quite complex arguments.

The reason why contractors should make it their business to know what their agency is taking is because the contractor should know how competitive his/her overall rate is. Also if the client is paying £1000 a day for a £500 a day contractor his expectations may be higher than the performance that the contractor is able to give. This is not a morality issue, however if agencies are that opportunistic in how they charge contractors then they should not be surprised if they are not trusted in future business dealings. It is interesting just how many ruthless opportunists there are in this world who are not succesfull.

[tim123]

It is a good point that you make but please do not use that word "fair" . It is a dreadful word that is used to gloss over quite complex arguments.

The reason why contractors should make it their business to know what their agency is taking is because the contractor should know how competitive his/her overall rate is. Also if the client is paying £1000 a day for a £500 a day contractor his expectations may be higher than the performance that the contractor is able to give. This is not a morality issue, however if agencies are that opportunistic in how they charge contractors then they should not be surprised if they are not trusted in future business dealings. It is interesting just how many ruthless opportunists there are in this world who are not succesfull.

Dodgy, can I use you to find me a new job please.

tim

[abc]

It is a good point that you make but please do not use that word "fair" . It is a dreadful word that is used to gloss over quite complex arguments.

The reason why contractors should make it their business to know what their agency is taking is because the contractor should know how competitive his/her overall rate is. Also if the client is paying £1000 a day for a £500 a day contractor his expectations may be higher than the performance that the contractor is able to give. This is not a morality issue, however if agencies are that opportunistic in how they charge contractors then they should not be surprised if they are not trusted in future business dealings. It is interesting just how many ruthless opportunists there are in this world who are not succesfull.

Don't go trying to tell me what words to use, you arrogant pimp.

I'll use what ever words I want to, thanks.

[DodgyAgent]

Don't go trying to tell me what words to use, you arrogant pimp.

I'll use what ever words I want to, thanks.

then explain what you mean by "fair"

Is it:

Fair to you?
Fair to everyone? (and how would you know?)

Or is arguing the point beyond your intellectual capabilities?

[abc]

then explain what you mean by "fair"

Is it:

Fair to you?
Fair to everyone? (and how would you know?)

Or is arguing the point beyond your intellectual capabilities?

My original post was my aimed at the other contractors on this site, not at a pimp like yourself. I've no interest in wasting my time explaining what such a simple word means to the likes of you. It is obvious to everyone, apart from you.