Agency rates

[reformation]

I think you're all missing the point. The margin quite frankly is none of your business, an agent negotiates a price with the cleint that the client is happy to pay and the agent then finds someone who is happy to work at £xxx per day and if the margin is 30% so what? The only person that should feel its an issue is the end client, it's like 2 contractors doing the same job for the same client and one is paid £500 a day and the other payed £400 a day the person on £400 can hardly get upset as he agreed to work at that rate and has a contractual obligation do so.

[Spacecadet]

I think you're all missing the point.

leave me out of that ALL... I made the exact same point already!

[reformation]

II can't agree at all, R.

The problem with the EB industry is that contractors are too often left out of the equation on things that directly impact on them. It's bad enough that we aren't privvy to the EB to client contract to ensure that the terms the EB make with us are in fact back-to-back.

Although I understand that EBs are hired by end-clients to source candidates and a rate set accordingly by the client to the EB who then negotiates a reasonable rate for the contractor, there are dependencies that affect contractors too in how much the mark up is:

(a) How the client perceives the contractor. If the contractor is paid too little but the EB too much then the client may have unrealistic expectations of the contractor if the client is not aware of the mark up percentage and believes the contractor is being paid a huge rate when they aren't. That could lead to extra pressures on contractors to work additional hours free of charge (after all the daily rate is very high rate right???) Wrong. If a contractor feels that he's been stung and is on a lower rate than his peers doing similar work - even through the same EB, that provides a massive disincentive to do more than the bare minimum and certainly won't incentivise them to go that extra mile. Resentment is not the best way of getting the best out of people.

(b) Clients may also terminate earlier if they feel the EB is costing too much. Well it's not just the EB that is getting terminated - it's us too. Why should our livelihoods to tied to EB greed because mark ups are unreasonably high?

(c) There are sometimes clauses in the contract stipulating that contractors need to indemnify the EB if they break the contract earlier. Although I am not suggesting that contractors should just walk off the job, it would be nice to know exactly how much the penalty would be if its the remaining mark up lost over the remaining life of the contract - if such penalties are legit in the first place (which I doubt very much!)

Your intelligent, well though through reasoned answer would be appreciated.

You do make some interesting points but in terms of a contractor being paid too little this rarely happens, it's not like we charge the client £600 a day and try to get some muppet to do it at £300 a day, we'd look for someone at £500 so that person will be capable.

I do agree with you though Deny that a culture of mistrust and screwing each other over doesnt foster very good relationships i guess i was just trying to make a point by saying it's 'none of your business'. But i guess it's that very attitude that breeds mistrust, its a rare day Denny but i have to say i think you may have a point! I knew i shouldnt have got drunk last night with the missus as im hung over and clearly feeling a bit ill tempered!

[Mailman_1]

We all know that agents are thieving, lying fockers!!! On my 1st contract 12 yrs ago i was royally shafted with an agent taking a 45% commission (After telling me they were on 20%). I vowed from that day that an agent would never (to my knowledge) take me for more than 15% of my gross which i think is a fair amount.

Funnily enuf, i have just signed a contract with an agent who tried it on....

I went to the interview and the interviewer had the agencies cover sheet with my cv. I had a little shifty at it and saw the agent was getting £480 a day. I had been put forward at £380 as "The client has set that as the maximum". Was around a 22% margin for the agent. I aced the interview and was offered the job b4 i left the interview.

The agent rang me later and offered me the job etc. I asked what their cut was and was told 3.5%. Ill cut it short as im getting bored of typing. I told them i wanted more dough, they waited 3 days and game back to me with a yes. Agent made out how she said they could'nt lose me etc. Lying bitch. They are down to 15 or 16% now as it was a round number and a long contract.

My point is.... As an agent had taken the piss a long time ago, i now have a problem with them taking more than i think is fair. I think thats probably the same with most contractors.

[Mailman_1]

I don't mind if the mark up is around 22 per cent for the first contract but it's extensions that I object to. The mark up should get progressively lower and more given to the contractor if they are deemed to deserve a rise. After all, the extensions are normally negotiated between contractor and client and the EB has no extra work except put another contact in the post.

But if they r on a PSL (Which most agents claim to be on) they will use that as an excuse not to reduce the rate as its theoretically at the lowest viable point it can be. Agents tend to request more mone from the client at this stage which in most cases will get turned down as the client doesnt want to pay anymore and think they can replace you easily enough. If you are irriplacable for some reason, they wil usually cave in.

[Spacecadet]

i told the agency to get on the case for my last extension - and they got me one

[reformation]

That's OK, R.

This may be the case these days, but that's not how it started out for me. Although I was hugely grateful for the rate I was on during my first long contract which was a lot more than I was used to getting, I didn't query EB practices or care about their own rates. It was exactly half what the EB was charging - so the mark up was 100 per cent. Even by old standards this was extortionate. However, I also feel that I would not have got a lot more if I'd gone direct as my immediate report was only on about £50 per day more than me.

My client thought the mark up was ridiculous, however, so at renewal time and when she wanted to give me a rise of about 50 per day she made the EB take it all out of their margin so that the client still paid the same. The EB were not happy, let me tell you. However, I had quite a good relationship with the recruiter, as I recall who did go to enormous lengths to ensure the contract started as soon as possible after numerous start date delays.

100% markup thats awful... how the hell did they justify that?

[Mailman_1]

100% markup thats awful... how the hell did they justify that?

Because they could??

[reformation]

Because they could??

I mean to the client, who in their right mind is going to stand for that?!

[tim123]

I think you're all missing the point. The margin quite frankly is none of your business, an agent negotiates a price with the cleint that the client is happy to pay and the agent then finds someone who is happy to work at £xxx per day and if the margin is 30% so what? The only person that should feel its an issue is the end client, it's like 2 contractors doing the same job for the same client and one is paid £500 a day and the other payed £400 a day the person on £400 can hardly get upset as he agreed to work at that rate and has a contractual obligation do so.

You can stand on a soap box and shout as loud as you like, but it doesn't change anything.

I have explained the reason WHY I think the margin is my business and if you wish to diasagree with them you have to counter my points, not completely ignore them

tim