WFH/Lockdown/Future of office work

[northernladuk]

I've been reading this thread with interest. We're a (very small) firm who previously had always been in one office, but recently forced to fully remote work.

One thing that hasn't really got a mention above is training. I guess someone doesn't become a contractor when they're still very new and have limited knowledge. It's what you do once you've earned your stripes, got the T-shirt, know what you're doing and just want to get on with it.

We are and always have been a training firm. We typically take on youngsters with no accounting experience, and train them up both in house and via the external accounting exams. Whilst we're coping, I'm certain the juniors aren't learning as much now as they would be in the office. They're not absorbing as much knowledge just from overhearing conversations by more experienced staff.

Perhaps not relevant to a typical contractor, but I think this is one area where at least some people being in the same place at the same time has real value. Video chats can't replicate it.

Kids these days think they know everything so that shouldn't be an issue

[LondonManc]

I've been reading this thread with interest. We're a (very small) firm who previously had always been in one office, but recently forced to fully remote work.

One thing that hasn't really got a mention above is training. I guess someone doesn't become a contractor when they're still very new and have limited knowledge. It's what you do once you've earned your stripes, got the T-shirt, know what you're doing and just want to get on with it.

We are and always have been a training firm. We typically take on youngsters with no accounting experience, and train them up both in house and via the external accounting exams. Whilst we're coping, I'm certain the juniors aren't learning as much now as they would be in the office. They're not absorbing as much knowledge just from overhearing conversations by more experienced staff.

Perhaps not relevant to a typical contractor, but I think this is one area where at least some people being in the same place at the same time has real value. Video chats can't replicate it.

We use Discord as an informal comms route within our firm, with Teams and Webex for formal comms. Discord seems to promote a more casual thing - we have weekly quizzes and coffee breaks where we catch up together in the way that people would as they arrive in the office, chat while on lunch, etc.

[vwdan]

One thing that hasn't really got a mention above is training. I guess someone doesn't become a contractor when they're still very new and have limited knowledge. It's what you do once you've earned your stripes, got the T-shirt, know what you're doing and just want to get on with it.

Very very true indeed. Some of my early permie jobs were very very formative - being in an office surrounded by the kind of people you want to be. You get to see how they work, how they act, how they present themselves and get an insight into their day job.

Ultimately, I think humans are very social creatures and if WFH really is the next huge boom, then the next big headlines will be about all the things we're missing out on because of it. I really don't believe chat and video can replace sitting face to face.

[LondonManc]

Very very true indeed. Some of my early permie jobs were very very formative - being in an office surrounded by the kind of people you want to be. You get to see how they work, how they act, how they present themselves and get an insight into their day job.

Ultimately, I think humans are very social creatures and if WFH really is the next huge boom, then the next big headlines will be about all the things we're missing out on because of it. I really don't believe chat and video can replace sitting face to face.

New to CUK?

[vwdan]

New to CUK?

I said humans.

[oliverson]

I did a near 100% WFH contract involving quite long hours as the permies didn't fancy the overtime and I did and it was one of the hardest things I ever did. I did another one involving two days a week in the office and was fine.

That's the sweet spot for me as well. Did it for 2 years. It enabled me to feel part of the scene in London whilst only being away from home around 48 hours. Although I was sharing a flat down there with another professional, signed up for prior to that gig, just 2 days in the office removes that commitment. I'm really hoping next gig will be along these lines.

[WordIsBond]

One thing that hasn't really got a mention above is training.

Well, well. Not only is what you say about training true, I've actually learned something about myself.

The reason I think having staff here to work with me is so important is because actually, most of what I do is training now. "Let's do it this way," and then mostly they implement. Even the ones with lots of experience don't know what I know, and I'm training them, and training them to train, too.

I'm just an expensive teacher, I guess. Never really thought of it that way before, till I read your comment. Not sure whether that justifies increasing or decreasing my rates, but I'm sure I'll come up with an argument for the former.

And absolutely, training just isn't the same if you aren't together. I'm hating this, TBH.

[ladymuck]

We use Discord as an informal comms route within our firm, with Teams and Webex for formal comms. Discord seems to promote a more casual thing - we have weekly quizzes and coffee breaks where we catch up together in the way that people would as they arrive in the office, chat while on lunch, etc.

But that's not training in the sense that Maslins is talking about.

My first job was in accounts (8 years!!) and they're right, there is so much you pick up as a wet behind the years newbie that you just can't get from a remote videoconf or formal training.

I was made to write out all my journals and get sign off from my boss before they were input into the system. Often I'd have to have the supporting documentation with it and we'd discuss any challenges I faced with getting the debits and credits correct, calculating what goes to which account and why, the long way round of journal entry vs just dropping in values that reflect the net effect, etc. That's hard to do over the phone.

[WordIsBond]

That's hard to do over the phone.

Honestly, there are so many little questions that are asked when an intern is sitting next to someone with 10+ years of experience that are "not important enough to phone about." So they don't get asked.

Not so much an issue for many one-man bands if you are actually working on delivering a project, maybe. But handover won't be as efficient remotely, either. Since I went independent and have always been remote, I've learned that you have to really improve your documentation, because handover/knowledge transfer just doesn't happen when remote.

I always specify documentation as a different part of the estimate (or quote) and estimate it high. It's interesting that clients might choke on a project costing £50K to develop but they'll go for £40K development and £15K documentation. If remote working becomes bigger, I think documentation will, too.

[LondonManc]

But that's not training in the sense that Maslins is talking about.

My first job was in accounts (8 years!!) and they're right, there is so much you pick up as a wet behind the years newbie that you just can't get from a remote videoconf or formal training.

I was made to write out all my journals and get sign off from my boss before they were input into the system. Often I'd have to have the supporting documentation with it and we'd discuss any challenges I faced with getting the debits and credits correct, calculating what goes to which account and why, the long way round of journal entry vs just dropping in values that reflect the net effect, etc. That's hard to do over the phone.

I know that's not training, I was referring to the office interaction bit.

You've spent 8 years in accounting. How opinions can plummet.