Attracting web-site traffic

[ScotsPine]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

"If small company has not got time for effective marketing of its products or services, then perhaps it should nto be doing business in the first place"

- an interesting observation...

"effective marketing of its products or services"

- so how would you define that with particular regard to the typical small company represented onn this board?

[AtW]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

> - so how would you define that with particular regard to the
> typical small company represented onn this board?

do you mean typical ltd created with a sole purpose to avoid tax and charge premium for being a contractor?

[JS]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

I base my statements on years of experience, and the experience of many successful small businesses.

Adwords is affordable, don't make me laugh. As soon as you campaign becomes anywhere near successful a larger competitor will simply pay more than you, or if he is crafty will adjust his per-click up until he beats you, then come down a little - forcing you to pay more.

Free tips are available on the web, but you have to have the TIME.

SEO done once and lasts a long time. And you say I don't know about SEO. Still using meta-tags and keyword spamming are you then ?

Then you have to re-evaluate and re-do it every month, I thought you said SEO lasted a long time, why does it have to re-evaluated and re-done every month then?

As for me being think, I think you meant thick. The answer to that is for others to judge, I don't care whether I am thick or not, by academic and IQ measures I am not - but who says they matter. The richest person I know is thick as pig-sh1t by most 'academic' standards (not even a CSE to his name) but is a great bloke and made himself millions through his small chain of shops selling houshold goods.

As for doing it yourself, have you any notion of just how many hours the average small business takes to run - see above?
And again, paying for it: My most recent client is quite large as small businesses go, even they are only turning over £8k a week, their advertising budget is a few hundred a month. Just how many potential customers do you think you could hit for that? I'll give you a clue, the target customer needs to be fairly affluent, be prepared to spend money on their child, own a car, have at least one child under 11, have free time to spend with their child and live within a 15 mile radius. Can you be THAT targeted - bear in mind that for these companies you have to put your money where your mouth is - they will NOT pay you if it doesn't work and YOU will have borne the costs. As for small companies needing to spend money on effective marketing of their products and services I agree with you 100%, the key-word being effective.

As for being hopeless, well I wouldn't dare comment, but I have probably been doing this longer than you have been alive and I make a decent living doing it - mostly repeat business too.

Big companies do it in print for 'Branding', yep, that's exactly what I said. They do it because it to put their brand in front of their target audience to generate sales.

Those sales may come via their website, telephone or off-the-page mail-order but they spend the money so that people know what they offer and can find them easily.


As for marketing managers being thick, maybe some (or all are) who cares - they know what works otherwise they would not have the job. Unless they are brothers of course

What I think is that over-reliance on the internet and a blinkered view that technology can solve most if not all problems is what led to the dot flops. Real SMALL business works to tight margins and has to fight to survive on a daily basis, many thousands don't survive, more than one in 5 owner managers in successful businesses want out because it is so stressful and difficult to earn a decent living.

[AtW]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

> Free tips are available on the web, but you have to have the
> TIME.

I dont get you, are you suggesting that there is a way to achieve success without using either your TIME or your MONEY? its not a lottery, you know!

> Then you have to re-evaluate and re-do it every month, I
> thought you said SEO lasted a long time, why does it have
> to re-evaluated and re-done every month then?

one month is a long time -- you quoted rate for day implying someone will have to be hired full time.


> As for doing it yourself, have you any notion of just how
> many hours the average small business takes to run - see > above?

I worked for a .com for 3 years - that meant 60-70 hour weeks of not bs work without overtime, we did it because we liked oru job and wecause we had shares in business -- we treated it as if it was ours.

> Those sales may come via their website, telephone or off-
> the-page mail-order but they spend the money so that
> people know what they offer and can find them easily.

sums dont add up -- cost of doing ads in most papers are higher than returns -- obviously it depends on circumstances and there are awlays exceptions.

> What I think is that over-reliance on the internet and a
> blinkered view that technology can solve most if not all
> problems is what led to the dot flops.

the Net has only started to show its strength.

> And again, paying for it: My most recent client is quite
> large as small businesses go, even they are only turning
> over £8k a week, their advertising budget is a few hundred a
> month.

8k week is not too bad for a very small company, thats £400k pa -- not that small at all!


> As for small companies needing to spend money on
> effective marketing of their products and services I agree
> with you 100%, the key-word being effective.

yep, agreed, however, with search engiens its much easier and cheaper to evaluate ROI, there is a lot smaller barrier of entry and penalty for failure is a lot less than with bit paper print.

anyway, I am loosing interest - i aint getting money out of it, and the more people in the world who pursue failed strategies the better for me, so, lets live and see what will happen. whichever out of us two makes million first gets extra round of beer, deal?

> As for being hopeless, well I wouldn't dare comment, but I
> have probably been doing this longer than you have been
> alive and I make a decent living doing it - mostly repeat
> business too.

well, i'd rather be young me than old you :rollin

[JS]

Re: Beer

So where do you want to meet for your free beer Dortmund?

[AtW]

Re: Beer

eh, you living anywhere near West Midlands?

[JS]

Re: West Midlands

Dortmund is in Germany. It has excellent beer. I will be near there for the next few days.

I won't be near the WM for a while (I am in Wolverhampton later this year).

PS as for £8k per week not being small, it is very small . It yields just over £85K per year as profit before tax, that is between 2 owners working on average 60+ hours per week each and that is a very good return for their first year. The business rates alone eat up £35K per year.

[ScotsPine]

Re: West Midlands

"do you mean typical ltd created with a sole purpose to avoid tax and charge premium for being a contractor?"

no...

[AtW]

Re: West Midlands

ah i dont like Germany, plus I need visa to travel etc. I moved from Wolves a few months ago to v.nice place in Brum - give me a shout next time you around this place, will buy you a beer for daring to face me in argument Get some good beer from Germany for me maybe? I will pay you in full. I'd like something that tastes like Caffreys or Murpheys, cheers

> PS as for £8k per week not being small, it is very small . It
> yields just over £85K per year as profit before tax, that is

sure it is, I work for company with 50mln+ per week turnover and very high profitability

> between 2 owners working on average 60+ hours per week
> each and that is a very good return for their first year. The
> business rates alone eat up £35K per year.

better than to be a "slave" aka employee, eh?

ScotsPine: I dont feel like fighting anyone recently, so peace man

[ScotsPine]

Re: West Midlands

"I dont feel like fighting anyone recently" ??????

i don't know what you mean. i said that i thought your observation was a good one and then asked for your ideas on advertising. i think maybe you've taken it the wrong way?