Attracting web-site traffic

[roger rabbit]

Re: Search engines

"I've worked in AI, commercially and academically, for over a decade now"

That's nice work if you can get it, for sure. Personally I prefer the traditional method of insemination.

[JS]

Re: Search Engines

NickNack
>>It is a community-based website and targets businesses and the general public in a smallish geographical area.

So that's the question I answered

As for your website, If your keywords are 'rare' enough you might get up the search engine listings but just try and register with the biggies for free these days.

Linktrade could be the way to go BUT you will be sharing traffic with your competitors.

I would still go the 'offline' route as I have ALWAYS found this is the best. Instead of magnetic car plates maybe buy some diaries, mousemats, pens, etc (all the usual freebie tat) with your www addr and stick it out to your target audience. (Yellow pages too).:hat

[AtW]

Re: Search Engines

> Forget search engines, they're crap unless you have a fat
> wallet these days.

stupid advice -- google can give highly targeted traffic - not much but conversion could be v. good. You can always cancel your campaign if you see it does not work -- its low barrier of entry.

[JS]

Re: Stupid Idea

Yes, ATW it is a stupid idea. Will never work. Don't bother trying it.

P.S. The rest of you should though

N.B. If you don't believe me, see
pub105.ezboard.com/fcukfr...c&index=27 - and ask yourself why yellow pages, newspapers and printers make so much money from profitable businesses.

[AtW]

Re: Stupid Idea

:rollin tell it to 1000s of marketeers who use google's adwords to generate highly convertable traffic :rollin

JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce of one of the bigger companeis in the UK and before that I did hold a seniour position in top 5 UK .com, but what should I know -- go use your yellow pages :lol

p.s. sucker who did not even get a response to his post can hardly be consired trust worthy, not that I am trying to look like one worth of your trust Mr JS cuz I have no motive for you to trust my advice or not :rollin

[JS]

re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

That wouldn't by any chance be a company with a fat wallet then, would it???? :rollin

PS I have several concurrent clients.

One of which is a major multi-national that makes extensive use of online-advertising with a budget of several millions per year. BUT the majority of the advertising spend is television, second comes newspaper, third radio, fourth signage, fifth direct mail and sixth online. They have over 3 million customers in the UK and revenues in the billions.

Many are smaller companies with budgets in the thousands, or even hundreds and I would NEVER advise they waste their cash with search engines when far more cost effective means are available to use ALL that budget.

This thread is discussing the most effective way of gaining exposure for a SMALL business. Not, the most effective way for a large corporation with oodles of cash; but if you insist then look at the list above, as you can see TELEVISION is number one if you have the cash.

[AtW]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

> That wouldn't by any chance be a company with a fat wallet
> then, would it????

it is, thats why they hired me and thats why they wont hire you cuz you are ch3ap :b

> One of which is a major multi-national that makes extensive
> use of online-advertising with a budget of several millions

I bet they use banners and they think its great, well, making site Search Optimised can give very good results, but then again, its hard work and may require signifitcant changes to website itself, it so much easier to just pay some cash for banners :rollin

> per year. BUT the majority of the advertising spend is
> television, second comes newspaper, third radio, fourth
> signage, fifth direct mail and sixth online. They have over 3

well that explains, did you know that Internet is #3 medium in the UK ranked by UK consumers only after TV and radio? Newspapers lost out.

> Many are smaller companies with budgets in the
> thousands, or even hundreds and I would NEVER advise
> they waste their cash with search engines when far more
> cost effective means are available to use ALL that budget.

you dont get it -- you dont have to spend money on Google's adwords, but you need to make your site SEO -- Search Engine Optimised if you want Google and others to effectively index your site and include you for free in their index. For a small site with no TV coverage that can be a saved -- a big company with TV coverage may not need it because everyone knows how to find it in the first place!!! So your example is not really applicable!

> This thread is discussing the most effective way of gaining
> exposure for a SMALL business. Not, the most effective

Exactly! its small business nto big business you quoted! Small busienss can't afford TV ads!!!

> way for a large corporation with oodles of cash; but if you
> insist then look at the list above, as you can see
> TELEVISION is number one if you have the cash.

well, you said it yourself -- you quoted big client who spends lots of cash on TV, newspapers etc, something totally opposite to the original question about SMALL firm -- ie no cash for TV!!! By the way for your info, according to recent research most of .coms nwo are small firms that are profitable

Concede defeat JS

[AtW]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

JS I forgot to add the following...

your only chance to save your is to admit your defeat to FTV in public right now and never ever dare to oppose me unless I instruct you do so

[JS]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

Hmmmm, obviously you have failed to grasp the point I am making. OK, I'll say it again in simpler terms.

SEARCH ENGINES ARE CRAP FOR SMALL COMPANIES.

it costs a lot of money, which they don't have, to get any worthwhile exposure.

Yes, you can optimise your site for search engines but ITS NOT FREE. You can pay someone like you to do it, but that is not cheap, as you have stated. You can pay someone like me to do it, as you think I am available at a bargain price, but even at minimum wage I would cost £33.60 per day which is a significant amount of cash to a small business, and as you know achieving good search engine placement means an on-going effort. You can even do it yourself, but then again how many small business people are experts in search engine optimisation. Also have you ever heard the phrase 'time is money' and you should explain to them why they have to spend even MORE time working on their business after 60 - 70 hours flat out actually running it!

There is no doubt in my mind (nor in the minds of my clients) that there are far more cost-effective ways to spend your cash. Sure if you have enough cash left then spend it on search engine placement, but don't make it the number one.

As for newsprint being out of it and the internet being 'super-dooper', ask yourself this:

Why do all the companies that try to sell you a computer, which by definition sells to someone FAR more likely to be an internet user than someone hiring a skip, pay sh1t-loads of cash to advertise in the PC magazines despite the fact that they have huge, search-engine optimised, interactive, expensive, technicolour dream-coat, e-commerce enabled websites to sell you the computer?

[AtW]

Re: re:JS I report directly to Head of Ecommerce......

> SEARCH ENGINES ARE CRAP FOR SMALL
> COMPANIES.

and you base this statement on absolutely nothing?

> it costs a lot of money, which they don't have, to get any
> worthwhile exposure.

Not its not - adwords are very affordable you can always cancel campaign if it does not work (in fact Google would do it) and you can always ensure that you dont pay more than you gain busienss -- its not TV ads.


> Yes, you can optimise your site for search engines but ITS
> NOT FREE.

There are lots of hints and tips on the web, anyone with half decent brain can get 50% of what most people charge money for.

> You can pay someone like you to do it, but that is not
> cheap, as you have stated.

Well, anything is not cheap for you!


> but even at minimum wage I would cost £33.60 per day
> which is a significant amount of cash to a small business,

do you know what is SEO at all? Well, just to let you knwo that it pertty much done once and lats for a long time -- you don't need to employ anyone to do it full time.

> and as you know achieving good search engine placement
> means an on-going effort.

yep, that why after first month you can reevaluate and decide if it worth doing. A lot of SEO companies would do this efford for puny sums a month (less than some of people on this board charged per hour).


> Also have you ever heard the phrase 'time is money' and
> you should explain to them why they have to spend even
> MORE time working on their business after 60 - 70 hours
> flat out actually running it!

JS, are you think or something? You either spend your time on it or pay money to someone to do that. If you aint got either of this then close down your company and go get a job. If small company has not got time for effective marketing of its products or services, then perhaps it should nto be doing business in the first place.

> There is no doubt in my mind (nor in the minds of my
> clients) that there are far more cost-effective ways to spend
> your cash. Sure if you have enough cash left then spend it
> on search engine placement, but don't make it the number
> one.

you are hopeless, hope your clients will realise that before going bust

> Why do all the companies that try to sell you a computer,
> which by definition sells to someone FAR more likely to be
> an internet user than someone hiring a skip, pay sh1t-loads > of cash to advertise in the PC magazines despite the fact

maybe branding? I actually did a lot of work for big computer company and I analysed results from ads for computer equipment in many printing publications as well as online, and guess what? Almost all print was ineffective -- costs too much, too few sales.

> that they have huge, search-engine optimised, interactive,
> expensive, technicolour dream-coat, e-commerce enabled
> websites to sell you the computer?

they are also thick and have old marketing managers who think that having your ads in the Sun is the thing to have. I've worked with marketing dept for big comp company for 3 years and I know quiet well how they think and behave -- most of them think that website is just a brochure complimentary to print catalogeu :rollin

anyway, think what you want to think