• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

Based in UK, UK Ltd, occasional work trips to Dubai? Visa/permit help

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Based in UK, UK Ltd, occasional work trips to Dubai? Visa/permit help

    Hi all, need some help please on working in Dubai. Have researched and not found discussion I'm looking for. Lots about getting contracts out there / going out to work and live full time, but not this.

    I'm about to start a contract with a UK office of a global company in a PM role on a global programme. I will be home based a lot of the time, or in one of ClientCo's UK offices a couple of days a week. But I will be working with a chunk of Dubai based people too. I know I'll need at least one trip out there (a week?) And there is clearly the possibility of needing to go out again. It might get as frequent as once a month.
    So I'm interested in work permit/ visa implications. I'd be grateful if those who've done similar or otherwise have knowledge could confirm their thoughts on the point at which I need to think work permit or visa than just attending meetings on visitor visa and any risks, plus views on difficulty or otherwise of getting appropriate visa.

    To some extent number and shape of visits will vary depending what I find when I get there (this is a turnaround role where I need to go in and sort out) and to some extent will be down to me to shape but I'm thinking ahead. It may be one visit then remote is fine; it may be repeated visits are necessary. Nature of work will be meetings: I will not myself be personally delivering there, but working with a team on the ground who are (the nature of global projects). I've done this stuff before, usually in Europe but once elsewhere as both a permie and a contractor. Europe of course has until now been easy but elsewhere tricky and I know in some places harder legally if you are a contractor in my situation rather than permie of UK ClientCo. My experience is most people - employers/ clients and employees/ contractors - don't take this stuff seriously enough or understand that there are real consequences of getting this stuff wrong (and that they fall on me, not ClientCo!) but I do get this - hence thinking about it now. The client is somebody I've worked for previously who trusts me (this is mutual) so I have influence there and want to research now so that I know implications depending on how requirement to travel may evolve as I get in there. I am happy to travel out there as often as one a month if needed (more often than that is highly unlikely and could be less) and would be covered on expenses, so all I need to do is check out legalities. I'm a woman but have worked in a Muslim country before and am comfortable with that - also conscious that from friends, this might be problematic for me work wise friending on culture and individuals in ClientCo's Dubai office but. will work through that as I come to it! I don't care about drinking alcohol - if I'm out there, it's to work.

    I should say - there's no question about tax residency. I will be being paid in the UK by MyCo, invoicing ClientCo in the UK in Sterling and paying all UK taxes as usual both individually and in MyCo. I have no desire to vary this. An aside is that I have always chosen to operate inside IR35 since starting contracting 6 years ago and will be doing that again now (this decision has always been based somewhere between moral reasons and attitude to risk, I have never cared what anyone else does but that's been my judgement for me. It does mean I'm less concerned about April 2020 than most as I have no historical risk!). Contract I'm about to start will likely be written to end March next year initially due to general uncertainty about the way IR35 is all going to pan out (I have requested this as think will be better for both MyCo and ClientCo and they'd have gone for either 6 or 9 months anyway) but if I then get extended and want to stay and ClientCo votes me inside IR35, the only real annoyance for me will be losing my 5% allowance and pension flexibility whether I stay through MyCo or switch to brolly - but the financial implications on future rate and historical risk are way lower for me than most.

    So people - any thoughts? I'm assuming going out for a couple of days' meet and greet even on a tourist via should be ok (can I say 'business meeting' when they ask purpose of visit? I don't want to get into lying...) But for second and subsequent visits, if any...? For some countries I've found it easier to find this information than for Dubai. For some places what I'm talking about would be fine on tourist visa and such meetings are explicitly ok (typically with tight boundaries on what is just meetings and what is work) but for others it's more constrained. Where does Dubai fall on this? I don't like grey areas, particularly in countries where they can arrest you for 'not a lot'!

    #2
    I believe there is such a thing as a Business Visa that allows you to attend meetings but not do productive work. Best to contact the embassy and ask.

    Comment


      #3
      Shouldn't your client be in a position to help you here? It's their requirement so let them help you?
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

      Comment


        #4
        Sorry gave up reading your post after a few lines

        I worked in Dubai for 2 years, just fly in/out every 90 days - job done


        Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Glencky View Post
          Hi all, need some help please on working in Dubai. Have researched and not found discussion I'm looking for. Lots about getting contracts out there / going out to work and live full time, but not this.

          I'm about to start a contract with a UK office of a global company in a PM role on a global programme. I will be home based a lot of the time, or in one of ClientCo's UK offices a couple of days a week. But I will be working with a chunk of Dubai based people too. I know I'll need at least one trip out there (a week?) And there is clearly the possibility of needing to go out again. It might get as frequent as once a month.
          So I'm interested in work permit/ visa implications. I'd be grateful if those who've done similar or otherwise have knowledge could confirm their thoughts on the point at which I need to think work permit or visa than just attending meetings on visitor visa and any risks, plus views on difficulty or otherwise of getting appropriate visa.

          To some extent number and shape of visits will vary depending what I find when I get there (this is a turnaround role where I need to go in and sort out) and to some extent will be down to me to shape but I'm thinking ahead. It may be one visit then remote is fine; it may be repeated visits are necessary. Nature of work will be meetings: I will not myself be personally delivering there, but working with a team on the ground who are (the nature of global projects). I've done this stuff before, usually in Europe but once elsewhere as both a permie and a contractor. Europe of course has until now been easy but elsewhere tricky and I know in some places harder legally if you are a contractor in my situation rather than permie of UK ClientCo. My experience is most people - employers/ clients and employees/ contractors - don't take this stuff seriously enough or understand that there are real consequences of getting this stuff wrong (and that they fall on me, not ClientCo!) but I do get this - hence thinking about it now. The client is somebody I've worked for previously who trusts me (this is mutual) so I have influence there and want to research now so that I know implications depending on how requirement to travel may evolve as I get in there. I am happy to travel out there as often as one a month if needed (more often than that is highly unlikely and could be less) and would be covered on expenses, so all I need to do is check out legalities. I'm a woman but have worked in a Muslim country before and am comfortable with that - also conscious that from friends, this might be problematic for me work wise friending on culture and individuals in ClientCo's Dubai office but. will work through that as I come to it! I don't care about drinking alcohol - if I'm out there, it's to work.

          I should say - there's no question about tax residency. I will be being paid in the UK by MyCo, invoicing ClientCo in the UK in Sterling and paying all UK taxes as usual both individually and in MyCo. I have no desire to vary this. An aside is that I have always chosen to operate inside IR35 since starting contracting 6 years ago and will be doing that again now (this decision has always been based somewhere between moral reasons and attitude to risk, I have never cared what anyone else does but that's been my judgement for me. It does mean I'm less concerned about April 2020 than most as I have no historical risk!). Contract I'm about to start will likely be written to end March next year initially due to general uncertainty about the way IR35 is all going to pan out (I have requested this as think will be better for both MyCo and ClientCo and they'd have gone for either 6 or 9 months anyway) but if I then get extended and want to stay and ClientCo votes me inside IR35, the only real annoyance for me will be losing my 5% allowance and pension flexibility whether I stay through MyCo or switch to brolly - but the financial implications on future rate and historical risk are way lower for me than most.

          So people - any thoughts? I'm assuming going out for a couple of days' meet and greet even on a tourist via should be ok (can I say 'business meeting' when they ask purpose of visit? I don't want to get into lying...) But for second and subsequent visits, if any...? For some countries I've found it easier to find this information than for Dubai. For some places what I'm talking about would be fine on tourist visa and such meetings are explicitly ok (typically with tight boundaries on what is just meetings and what is work) but for others it's more constrained. Where does Dubai fall on this? I don't like grey areas, particularly in countries where they can arrest you for 'not a lot'!
          I've travelled there quite often for work for a client. Similar to you, client (vendor) was UK based (and their client was in Dubai) and I was invoicing via my UK ltd. I used to travel on visa on arrival. My understanding of this is you are allowed to carry out work (on visa on arrival/short term visa/visit visa) as long as you are NOT going to be permanently based there and NOT being paid there.

          You will not find a clear cut explanation of this on their website and it gets confusing with business visa, etc. But when I talked with my clients' local immigration representative, they did clarify this in writing. Though it was done in Arabic and I got it translated.

          In my numerous trips to Dubai, I've never been asked purpose of my trip by the immigration officer. They check passport, stamp and that's it. I've had a colleague who did get it clarified by an immigration officer in Dubai, though this was all verbal conversation.

          I should caveat this by saying - all this was done 2 years ago.

          I would approach your client to check with their Dubai offices (Most offices in Dubai usually have an on-site immigration representative)

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jbond007 View Post
            I've travelled there quite often for work for a client. Similar to you, client (vendor) was UK based (and their client was in Dubai) and I was invoicing via my UK ltd. I used to travel on visa on arrival. My understanding of this is you are allowed to carry out work (on visa on arrival/short term visa/visit visa) as long as you are NOT going to be permanently based there and NOT being paid there.

            You will not find a clear cut explanation of this on their website and it gets confusing with business visa, etc. But when I talked with my clients' local immigration representative, they did clarify this in writing. Though it was done in Arabic and I got it translated.

            In my numerous trips to Dubai, I've never been asked purpose of my trip by the immigration officer. They check passport, stamp and that's it. I've had a colleague who did get it clarified by an immigration officer in Dubai, though this was all verbal conversation.

            I should caveat this by saying - all this was done 2 years ago.

            I would approach your client to check with their Dubai offices (Most offices in Dubai usually have an on-site immigration representative)
            Thanks, jbond007 (nice ID!) - really helpful but obviously, caveats noted. That's given me something to go on and do a bit more research with. I will also try and soak to the embassy.

            NLUK - ClientCo is a large global but small in UK and in Dubai. My expectation is there will eventually be advice available via ClientCo but my client will know none of this and the advice won't be easily accessible so I'll have to help bring client along the journey. Plus, I've been given very bad advice from HSBC when I worked there, who were unwilling to give visa help to contractors at the time (so I refused to travel when most were ignorantly taking the risk). It's my business and my personal record, I do my own research at least first, not just take somebody's word that it's ok (if necessary I'd pay for advice but online and on here's not a bad start).

            Saw a thread on here recently about somebody proposing to work in the States who'd been given wrong info initially. Many people are naive or willing to take bigger risks with this stuff than me - working in Dubai and doing dodgy visa runs is not for me, thanks. I might go with s slight grey area briefly but not doing something clearly illegal.

            Comment

            Working...
            X