ir35 in private sector

[radish2008]

HMG does have the memory of a gnat, but I'm assuming that even they are aware of what happened w/ the original plans for IR35 in 1999, i.e. exactly as you describe above, and they are prepared to face it down this time.

do you think - in the middle of Brexit ? I think this will drag on for years. and I think businesses will structure working practices to be outside. Don't forget HMRC let Vodafone off £4bn simply because they refused to pay it. I think they're in for a bigger fight than they think.

[jamesbrown]

do you think - in the middle of Brexit ? I think this will drag on for years. and I think businesses will structure working practices to be outside. Don't forget HMRC let Vodafone off £4bn simply because they refused to pay it. I think they're in for a bigger fight than they think.

Certainly, I could be wrong, but I think they’ll be aware of concerns among some big businesses and, based on the consultation wording, are ready to look through this. Not all big businesses will be against this, though. In terms of how business responds post-implementation, that’s a separate issue, but I don’t think it will be a simple/integral one across all sectors, or even within sectors. Some fraction of contract work that is closer to a supply of people, rather than services, will follow the path of least resistance, which will be inside.

[Andy2]

Off-payroll working (IR35) in the private sector - HMRC announce consultation



On Friday 18th May HMRC finally opened its consultation into how to tackle what it claims is large scale non-compliance with the off-payroll working rules (IR35) in the private sector. The consultation and recommended options build on the government’s experience of the rules introduced for the public sector in April 2017.

[mudskipper]

Published as a case study here - part of week long 'CEST' analysis.

[man]

I'm not by any means saying I support these proposed changes (for a number of good reasons you've already all provided - HMRCs ignorant approach being one of the biggest issues) but does anyone else see a possible upside being an increase in flexibility from clients in an attempt to keep their roles outside of IR35 and therefore competitive? For example, part time contracts (to allow the contractor to more easily service multiple clients at once), retainers rather than 9-5 style 'full time' roles, reduced attempts to control and direct etc.

By the way mudskipper, thanks for the link - it was an interesting read and even though I knew the tool was dire I didn't expect to see that clearly incorrect result for that particular described set of circumstances.

[oliverson]

Published as a case study here - part of week long 'CEST' analysis.

Interesting article. I am of the same view. If they apply it to the private sector, I'm selling up and moving to Spain continuing my contracting pursuits over there. That's over £ 50k of tax (corp tax and VAT) per annum the government will be losing, not to mention tax on the things I buy here or the impact on the products/services I buy whilst living here. Now if we ALL went along those lines, just who the hell would be paying into the system?

[1manshow]

Interesting article. I am of the same view. If they apply it to the private sector, I'm selling up and moving to Spain continuing my contracting pursuits over there. That's over £ 50k of tax (corp tax and VAT) per annum the government will be losing, not to mention tax on the things I buy here or the impact on the products/services I buy whilst living here. Now if we ALL went along those lines, just who the hell would be paying into the system?

I guess they are gambling on the possibility that most people end up staying in the UK.

[OneManBand]

Interesting article. I am of the same view. If they apply it to the private sector, I'm selling up and moving to Spain continuing my contracting pursuits over there. That's over £ 50k of tax (corp tax and VAT) per annum the government will be losing, not to mention tax on the things I buy here or the impact on the products/services I buy whilst living here. Now if we ALL went along those lines, just who the hell would be paying into the system?

Surely the main effect will be daily rates going up drastically, as contractors try to recoup the lost earnings?

[radish2008]

My money is still on it just never happening.

IR35 is simply a mechanism to create a state of fear.

[ShandyDrinker]

Interesting article. I am of the same view. If they apply it to the private sector, I'm selling up and moving to Spain continuing my contracting pursuits over there. That's over £ 50k of tax (corp tax and VAT) per annum the government will be losing, not to mention tax on the things I buy here or the impact on the products/services I buy whilst living here. Now if we ALL went along those lines, just who the hell would be paying into the system?

I'd completely ignored VAT but it's actually a hell of a good point. Similarly I would say if I consider Corp Tax/VAT/Divi Tax then it would be in the recent of £40-60k depending on whether it was a good year or not.

I guess they are gambling on the possibility that most people end up staying in the UK.

Probably, but those who have the option or indeed the appetite will move. I think the higher likelihood is that people will just quit contracting.

Surely the main effect will be daily rates going up drastically, as contractors try to recoup the lost earnings?

Much as I would love to see this, I think it is unlikely. Bigger companies are more likely to just go direct to consultancies which is probably what they've been lobbying for for years to get rid of pesky contractors stealing their business.

My money is still on it just never happening.

IR35 is simply a mechanism to create a state of fear.

I really do think you're wishing. Given the rhetoric over the last couple of years with the double or quits NHS announcement over the weekend it is now a slam dunk. What is such a shame is that the NHS will never have enough while there isn't the pressure to achieve efficiencies and say no to people wasting their time. We really do need to decide what the NHS and it should be there to preserve/prolong life. I was surprised to see the scope of the NHS constitution this evening.