Agency and HR sidestepping increase negotiation

[ZodTheMerciless]

Hi there,

Just wanted to get some thoughts from the community. I'm about to complete a contract at one of the big investment banks in London and they want to renew me. I have informed the agency I will but want a rate increase. They have told me that I need to negotiate this directly with the manager I work with in the client. They say the bank's HR team insist this is the procedure.

I've contracted to banks in London for 15 years and have never once had an agent and the client's HR team refuse to be involved in a rate increase negotiation. Even with this same bank, I negotiated an increase through the agent & HR just a couple of years ago. Talking directly to the manager I work with about this seems rife with potential to damage the relationship rather than using the standard buffer. And apart from chasing money, I'm not really sure how the agency can justify their continued cut when they won't even involve themselves in this.

So yea, have I just been fortunate in the past 15 years in not having to do this directly or is this as surprising to others as it is to me?

Cheers

[WordIsBond]

Well, sounds like they've effectively given you permission to find out what the agency's cut is.

You are running a business that is providing a service for a fee. I'd say it is easier to make that case, if the fee increase is actually warranted, with the person who is interacting directly with that service. I don't see a problem.

[northernladuk]

Have you asked whether they are on a fixed margin. If they are then yes, the client increasing the rate is the only thing that can happen.
The only other way of getting a rate increase would be shaving the agents commission which in this case they are either unwilling or unable to do.

Better have a bloody good case why you think you deserve more than the standard rate card if you are going to take the client on. You will have to be prepared to walk if they say no as well.

[ZodTheMerciless]

Well, I've often found the people I'm working with have very little knowledge or input into what contractors are paid, so having to approach them about it is a bit awkward. But yea, it's an interesting point regarding the agencies' cut. I've no idea if it's a percentage or a flat amount. They won't be seeing a penny of any increase I negotiate myself that's for sure.

[Lance]

Well, sounds like they've effectively given you permission to find out what the agency's cut is.

You are running a business that is providing a service for a fee. I'd say it is easier to make that case, if the fee increase is actually warranted, with the person who is interacting directly with that service. I don't see a problem.

Indeed. There is a probably a contract term that forbids you from discussing rates with the client. Here's a get-out from that.
Probably the individual agent is clueless ****wit, but nonetheless you have the go ahead so fill yer boots.
If the client agrees to pay you more then this becomes the agent's problem very quickly.

[Lance]

Well, I've often found the people I'm working with have very little knowledge or input into what contractors are paid, so having to approach them about it is a bit awkward. But yea, it's an interesting point regarding the agencies' cut. I've no idea if it's a percentage or a flat amount. They won't be seeing a penny of any increase I negotiate myself that's for sure.

How do you work that out?

[washed up contractor]

Hi there,

Just wanted to get some thoughts from the community. I'm about to complete a contract at one of the big investment banks in London and they want to renew me. I have informed the agency I will but want a rate increase. They have told me that I need to negotiate this directly with the manager I work with in the client. They say the bank's HR team insist this is the procedure.

I've contracted to banks in London for 15 years and have never once had an agent and the client's HR team refuse to be involved in a rate increase negotiation. Even with this same bank, I negotiated an increase through the agent & HR just a couple of years ago. Talking directly to the manager I work with about this seems rife with potential to damage the relationship rather than using the standard buffer. And apart from chasing money, I'm not really sure how the agency can justify their continued cut when they won't even involve themselves in this.

So yea, have I just been fortunate in the past 15 years in not having to do this directly or is this as surprising to others as it is to me?

Cheers

What is the problem? If you want the increase get talking. If they say not interested and the agents says not interested then you know what your options are.

[Hobosapien]

Indeed. There is a probably a contract term that forbids you from discussing rates with the client. Here's a get-out from that.
Probably the individual agent is clueless ****wit, but nonetheless you have the go ahead so fill yer boots.
If the client agrees to pay you more then this becomes the agent's problem very quickly.

Ensure any 'go ahead' from the agent is in an email so can prove they shirked responsibility should they later decide the contract terms forbid it and any increase you negotiate is to be passed to them for them to decide your cut in your contract with the agency.

i.e. Just because 'they can't be arsed' doesn't mean they can be circumvented altogether. Any rate increase from the client will still go via the agency so you'd need to ensure the rate from the agency reflects your expectations, depending on how the agency's cut is determined, fixed rate or percentage. Percentage obviously means they'll get some of the rate increase unless you manage to get them to lower their cut too.

That's why it's easier to just 'play hard ball' with the agent and tell them what you want or you're walking. Their cut and the overall fee the client pays is then irrelevant to you.

For any discussion about rates direct with the client I've always let the client be the instigator, otherwise I expect the agent to do their job on my behalf. Your contract is with the agency not the client.

[ZodTheMerciless]

How do you work that out?

If the agent is going to do nothing I don't see why they should get more money as a result of me doing what they should be.

[ZodTheMerciless]

Ensure any 'go ahead' from the agent is in an email so can prove they shirked responsibility should they later decide the contract terms forbid it and any increase you negotiate is to be passed to them for them to decide your cut in your contract with the agency.

i.e. Just because 'they can't be arsed' doesn't mean they can be circumvented altogether. Any rate increase from the client will still go via the agency so you'd need to ensure the rate from the agency reflects your expectations, depending on how the agency's cut is determined, fixed rate or percentage. Percentage obviously means they'll get some of the rate increase unless you manage to get them to lower their cut too.

That's why it's easier to just 'play hard ball' with the agent and tell them what you want or you're walking. Their cut and the overall fee the client pays is then irrelevant to you.

For any discussion about rates direct with the client I've always let the client be the instigator, otherwise I expect the agent to do their job on my behalf. Your contract is with the agency not the client.

Yea you've stated it all very nicely. My contract is with the agency, so having to negotiate directly to the end client, while making sense from some perspectives, is just not right. I once had an agent give me an increase from their margin to keep me at a place. Once they've placed you the money coming in with renewals is pretty close to effort free for them.